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Started By
Message
re: Trump's section 301 tariffs were successful. The data proves it.
Posted on 3/11/24 at 11:58 am to BCreed1
Posted on 3/11/24 at 11:58 am to BCreed1
quote:
It was less than a century ago.
a. The US only started to develop after industrialization took off in the late 19th century, which was changing the older economic model that we had relied upon previously . Industrialization was still emerging 100-ish years ago.
b. The federal government was much smaller and the correlated funding was much smaller. If we went back to a smaller federal government, we could rely on tariffs again potentially. You are promoting a larger federal government, though. Tariffs can't fund much of anything today, and even the most generous estimates of Trump's tariff revenue are a nothingburger compared to our annual budget.
c. The US didn't fully emerge as a world power until after WW2, when we were able to become a hegemon. We were still relatively poor (yet developing, thanks to industrialization) when we stopped relying on tariffs.
d. The worldwide economic model of developing countries has advanced a few tiers since the US became a worldwide hegemon. We are the literal pioneer of all of these developments.
You are promoting, at best, a return to the industrialization age of the late 19th and early 20th century. This means we will have to scale back the most productive aspects of our economy to devolve.
quote:
and you can't even counter the fact that APPLE would still have invented their products.
Technology is a more developed tier of economy than industrialization. You want to devote the resources we used for our advanced economy to redistribute to unproductive citizens who refuse to adapt, instead. You can't have both. Even China, who has stolen basically all of their tech within their 'advanced' economy, can't compete because they're still so focused on industrialization.
Posted on 3/11/24 at 12:00 pm to BCreed1
quote:
LOL! We can have it all. Why are you trying to suggest we can't?
Our economy only has so many resources and can only grow so quickly.
Also, our economy will only grow by advancing our economy. Your plan is to actively sabotage that and focus on vastly less productive economic outlets. Our economy will literally shrink with your preferred policies. That's literally the design of the economic model you're proposing.
Things like tech and innovation will always have higher value AND margins than 1st or 2nd level economic models.
Posted on 3/11/24 at 12:02 pm to RogerTheShrubber
The tariff battle nearly destroyed many U.S. farmers. Trade wars do no one any favors. Slow incremental progress is the only way to solve the U.S. trade deficit.
Posted on 3/11/24 at 12:03 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
That's what y'all want.
No. That's simply a false narrative to hang on to the old Bush and GOPe mentality.
You think it's an either or and it's not!
quote:
We evolved beyond the mfg economy.
Why do we still have manufacturing? Again.. you think it's an either or! It's not.
quote:
Yes, some people are being left behind. That's on them.
No it's on the federal gov for selling out the nation to a country that is openly trying to destroy the USA
Posted on 3/11/24 at 12:04 pm to BCreed1
quote:
Wrong. The Federal Gov has always been involved. It was the Federal Gov that ruined complete cities and towns all across America.
And you're arguing for continued and stepped up involvement/control by fedgov.
quote:
I realize that you don't give a SHITE about Americans.
You argue like a Leftist.
quote:
They should just adapt right. 50 years old and Job moves DUE TO GOV and it's HIS fault.
Well guess what... You can now adapt.
So, more government to take care of the shite government has caused. Brilliant!
Posted on 3/11/24 at 12:04 pm to BCreed1
quote:
Why do we still have manufacturing?
We manufacture more advanced (and high margin) items now.
quote:
No it's on the federal gov for selling out the nation to a country that is openly trying to destroy the USA
You're upset that the federal government allowed freedom (capitalism) to occur, and your solution to fighting the federal government is to...empower the federal government? To tax, regulate, and pick winners and losers?
frick that leftist nonsense.
Posted on 3/11/24 at 12:05 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
a. The US only started to develop after industrialization took off in the late 19th century, which was changing the older economic model that we had relied upon previously . Industrialization was still emerging 100-ish years ago.
Thank you for admitting that with tariffs we still advanced.
quote:
b. The federal government was much smaller and the correlated funding was much smaller. If we went back to a smaller federal government, we could rely on tariffs again potentially. You are promoting a larger federal government, though. Tariffs can't fund much of anything today, and even the most generous estimates of Trump's tariff revenue are a nothingburger compared to our annual budget.
LOL.. NOPE. Just what you are trying to sell!
Posted on 3/11/24 at 12:05 pm to BCreed1
quote:
We can have it all.
Not without subsidizing workers who do not evolve and grow.
In my teens and 20s I learned skills (drafting, cabinet making, welding, scuba diving, business mgt, teaching, public speaking) and iny 30s got my masters
I took it up on myself to ensure I would stay employed and have growth opportunities.
It's not the governments job to grow you
Posted on 3/11/24 at 12:06 pm to BCreed1
quote:
Thank you for admitting that with tariffs we still advanced.
As industrialization was developing.
Tariffs did not survive an industrial America.
We are a few economic tiers ahead of industrialization, my friend.
Posted on 3/11/24 at 12:11 pm to BCreed1
You will not get anywhere with the people you are talking to.
They are globalism first. Americans second and you need to adapt.
They are globalism first. Americans second and you need to adapt.
Posted on 3/11/24 at 12:12 pm to BCreed1
quote:Invented? Who knows. But brought to market—nope. Few consumers could afford a $10,000 iPhone.
Your argument hold ZERO weight and you can't even counter the fact that APPLE would still have invented their products.
Instead the rest of the world would have them—but not us— because IP is the easiest thing in the world to move. Imagine the advantage the US would have if the rest of the world had apple products (and a myriad of others) but we didn’t.
No one could communicate with us. We still have newsapapers and encyclopedias. All those jobs would still be here! hooray!
Protectionism is another take on the “pay half the people to dig holes and pay the other half to fill them up”.
This post was edited on 3/11/24 at 12:13 pm
Posted on 3/11/24 at 12:14 pm to Jjdoc
quote:
They are globalism first.
I believe in freedom (capitalism) first.
You are promoting Leftist economics.
Posted on 3/11/24 at 12:15 pm to Taxing Authority
quote:
But brought to market—nope. Few consumers could afford a $10,000 iPhone.
That's not true. We brought to market many advanced inventions.
But I'm out of the thread. BCreed is right however.
Posted on 3/11/24 at 12:15 pm to BCreed1
quote:And no one domestically would be able to afford them.
TVs, Radio...etc. We nor any nation was going to advance from Point "A" to point "Z" with out the in between steps.
Go look at 80s USSR. They had all sorts of technology. The west had even more. But no one could afford to buy it because they were 100% protectionist. I guess you’d call that “success”. I wouldn’t.
Posted on 3/11/24 at 12:16 pm to Jjdoc
quote:
We brought to market many advanced inventions
Via a developed economy
You're promoting actively devolving our economy.
Posted on 3/11/24 at 12:19 pm to Jjdoc
quote:How many iPhones have been manufactured in the US?
That's not true. We brought to market many advanced inventions.
quote:Smart move.
But I'm out of the thread.
This post was edited on 3/11/24 at 12:20 pm
Posted on 3/11/24 at 12:48 pm to Jjdoc
quote:
will not get anywhere with the people you are talking to.
Because crony capitalism.is wrong
Yet you need it
Posted on 3/11/24 at 12:56 pm to lake chuck fan
quote:
That's the point of the article, it didn't make products more expensive.
Yes it does.
You are saying that tariffs don't affect price.
If I put a 100% tariff on an iPhone, are you saying it won't affect price? At all???
Posted on 3/11/24 at 12:58 pm to Jjdoc
quote:
You will not get anywhere with the people you are talking to.
You mean the conservatives?
Posted on 3/11/24 at 1:20 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
You're promoting actively devolving our economy.
Indeed.
Its not the governments job to keep every person educated and skilled enough to thrive.
They already give you all the opportunity you need to get there.
Were going backward by wanting "manufacturing jobs" returned to float the working class.
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