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Message
re: Trump backs push for Bible classes in schools
Posted on 2/3/19 at 3:38 pm to Revelator
Posted on 2/3/19 at 3:38 pm to Revelator
quote:
If the government was incapable or not willing to impose its will as it pertains to Christianity on schools in an era when America was significantly more Christian, what makes you think they could achieve that now in our secular times?
Because you are subjecting the basis of the Christian faith to the bureaucracy of public education
0
Posted on 2/3/19 at 3:45 pm to Revelator
quote:
I don't understand how any student could have a comprehensive understanding of American history and it's founding while excluding the contributions of bible and Christianity?
It would be like studying German history and never mentioning Hitler or the NAZI'S.
I would venture to guess I’ve studied way more American History than most on this board and, while not inconsequential, Christianity was not as influential as most believe.
The Revolution was fought and the Constitution was written in one of the most areligious periods in American history prior to the Second Great Awakening. And the many of the crucial founders were either deist or Christian-lite. The foundation of our government comes primarily from Locke’s theory of the primacy of the individual and his destiny as creator of his own will which cut against the wrongful teachings of the monarchs of Europe of divine right.
Posted on 2/3/19 at 4:59 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:
And the many of the crucial founders were either deist or Christian-lite.
This could be true and perhaps, they were like the politicians of our day and said the things that were expedient for them at the time?
Either way, you can't deny that they quoted scriptures, made public declarations to Jehoveh God and for the most part, conducted themselves in a manner consistent with Christian principles.
There is a scripture in the Bible that talks about people that would spread the gospel, out of spite instead of pure motives, but yet it was being spread.
So regardless of their motives, Christianity was preached.
Philippians 1:15 Some indeed preach Christ from envy and rivalry, but others from good will.
16 The latter do it out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel.
17 The former proclaim Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely but thinking to afflict me in my imprisonment.
18 What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed, and in that I rejoice. Yes, and I will rejoice,
Posted on 2/3/19 at 5:07 pm to Revelator
quote:
conducted themselves in a manner consistent with Christian principles.
Here is the problem. Both republicanism - our form of government - and Christianity are founded by and utilize the philosophical concept of objective morality and individual primacy. It is inaccurate to say one derived from the other.
Posted on 2/3/19 at 5:15 pm to TOKEN
That Kentucky stuff is news to me. I didn’t realize it wasn’t being offered all this time. I took Bible Literature in a Lexington high school. Pretty cool in my opinion. It was of particular interest for Christian students and a fairly easy A for others. Was done in a secular way but could easily be spiritually edifying for the Christian students without crossing any legal lines.
Posted on 2/3/19 at 5:39 pm to volod
quote:
The issue is will it really be an elective. The type of people who are pushing for this will make it mandatory for their kids. And the type of schools offering this were alresdy leaning in that direction.
Bible study was an elective at my public school growing up, but was rarely offered because of the lack of interest. It's not a big deal for an elective to be offered so long as the school boards don't collude to make sure students have no other options but take it. My high school offered tons of electives like speech, theater, cooking, medicine, agriculture, various shop type classes, guitar, bible study, additional history classes, AP Chemistry, AP Calculus, software coding classes, robotics, etc.
Posted on 2/4/19 at 1:02 am to Revelator
quote:
This could be true and perhaps, they were like the politicians of our day and said the things that were expedient for them at the time?
Either way, you can't deny that they quoted scriptures, made public declarations to Jehoveh God and for the most part, conducted themselves in a manner consistent with Christian principles.
There is a scripture in the Bible that talks about people that would spread the gospel, out of spite instead of pure motives, but yet it was being spread.
So regardless of their motives, Christianity was preached
Should not have Christian Studies as an elective without all the other major world religions being included in the course, period. Your motives are suspect at best. If you have an elective course on religion then Islam, Hinduism, Judaism and others should also be included with absolutely zero preference to one over the other. My feeling is you want this elective to be like Sunday School and it shouldn’t be. The historical significance of these religions should outway any spiritual considerations. Should morality be an elective in our schools based off the Bible? I don’t think so.
Posted on 2/4/19 at 3:08 pm to CelticDog
I’ll pray for you.
Posted on 2/4/19 at 3:17 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
Furthermore, as any English teacher can attest, knowing Biblical stories is an IMMENSE benefit when it comes to understanding symbolism and allusions throughout the entire western canon of literature.
From a purely academic exercise you are correct. If you were going to teach it as literature and understanding it through that light, no problem.
My problem would be whose interpretation of the Bible and the teaching of it. If you come from your perspective , cool, no problem. But in a lot of these places where they want to do this I doubt if the "teachers" would want to admit that there is literary device, etc. Also, which bibles would be used? King James......The New Jerusalem?
Posted on 2/4/19 at 4:01 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
are they providing the option to study other mainstream religions as well?
All my fellow Baptists are going to love this option, until Muslims outnumber Christians. Then what are we gonna do? Going to sprain our ankles walking around all the prayer rugs brought up from Mexico.
All my fellow Baptists are going to love this option, until Muslims outnumber Christians. Then what are we gonna do? Going to sprain our ankles walking around all the prayer rugs brought up from Mexico.
Posted on 2/4/19 at 4:54 pm to TOKEN
Clear violation of the first amendments establishment clause
Posted on 2/4/19 at 4:55 pm to SDVTiger
quote:
implement its anti Islamophobia agenda
Are you pro islamophobia?
Posted on 2/4/19 at 4:56 pm to Revelator
quote:
the state already indoctrinates the kids in the religion of secularism.
Oh man we found someone who doesnt understand the meaning of words
Posted on 2/4/19 at 6:00 pm to TOKEN
quote:
Should not have Christian Studies as an elective without all the other major world religions being included in the course, period. Your motives are suspect at best. If you have an elective course on religion then Islam, Hinduism, Judaism and others should also be included with absolutely zero preference to one over the other. My feeling is you want this elective to be like Sunday School and it shouldn’t be.
First off, I wouldn't be against other religious classes being offered as electives.
Secondly, no, I don't want the classes taught Sunday School style. Church is the place for this.
Lastly, it's disingenuous to pretend that Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism or any other religion besides Judeo-Christian had the same impact on our country. So in that respect, yes, it should be given preferential treatment.
Posted on 2/4/19 at 6:02 pm to tigerfoot
quote:
All my fellow Baptists are going to love this option, until Muslims outnumber Christians. Then what are we gonna do? Going to sprain our ankles walking around all the prayer rugs brought up from Mexico.
Please state in detail how Islam was fundamental in the founding and establishing of our nations laws and culture?
Posted on 2/4/19 at 6:02 pm to AggieDub14
quote:
Clear violation of the first amendments establishment clause
No it isn't. The government is neither establishing nor abridging any religion.
This post was edited on 2/4/19 at 6:30 pm
Posted on 2/4/19 at 6:27 pm to Revelator
By creating an elective for one religion but not others, they are establishing
Posted on 2/4/19 at 6:30 pm to AggieDub14
quote:
By creating an elective for one religion but not others, they are establishing
Establishing is different than recognizing.
Would this be defined as establishing a religion? Public schools install Islamic prayer rooms.
Newsmax
This post was edited on 2/4/19 at 6:34 pm
Posted on 2/4/19 at 6:35 pm to Revelator
If that's all the room can be used for, then yes. That would be a clear violation of the establishment clause. At least how I interpret it.
Posted on 2/4/19 at 6:36 pm to TOKEN
When I was growing up we learned the Bible and the Lord's words from Sunday school and church.
School was for learning how to live in this world effectively.
But I believe each person should have a knowledge and respect for God's laws,our society is suffering from a lack of the following of his commandments.
Whether we believe in Him or not,these teachings give us a guideline for a civil existence.
Without laws or morals we are no better than common animals...
School was for learning how to live in this world effectively.
But I believe each person should have a knowledge and respect for God's laws,our society is suffering from a lack of the following of his commandments.
Whether we believe in Him or not,these teachings give us a guideline for a civil existence.
Without laws or morals we are no better than common animals...
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