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re: The U.S. was founded as a Christian nation. Not this Judeo-Christian crap.
Posted on 8/23/25 at 8:09 pm to crazy4lsu
Posted on 8/23/25 at 8:09 pm to crazy4lsu
No worries.
Deism in and of itself is tough to wrap your head around and leads to lots of confusion as my understanding is you had Christian deists, moderates and full deists who ranged from “cool idea I’ll consider it” to skeptics of the role of the church to “I don’t believe in Jesus”.
Washington for instance adopted certain portions of deism apparently and wouldn’t take communion but still professed himself a Christian.
And they were all basically Freemasons which is an entirely different issue.
Deism in and of itself is tough to wrap your head around and leads to lots of confusion as my understanding is you had Christian deists, moderates and full deists who ranged from “cool idea I’ll consider it” to skeptics of the role of the church to “I don’t believe in Jesus”.
Washington for instance adopted certain portions of deism apparently and wouldn’t take communion but still professed himself a Christian.
And they were all basically Freemasons which is an entirely different issue.
2
Posted on 8/23/25 at 8:11 pm to GumboPot
How many different Christian groups were there?
Quakers
Presbyterians
Jesuits
Methodists
Amish
Mennonite
Baptists
Catholics
Some of them have gone to war with each other
No Islam Buddhism Hinduism
But yes we were founded under Christian values
Quakers
Presbyterians
Jesuits
Methodists
Amish
Mennonite
Baptists
Catholics
Some of them have gone to war with each other
No Islam Buddhism Hinduism
But yes we were founded under Christian values
Posted on 8/23/25 at 8:19 pm to tide06
Early American history is tied very closely with the spirit of religious revivals that occurred both in Europe and America. I’d even argue that the Puritanical streak seen in certain modern movements have their origin in the First Great Awakening, as in it imbued a sense of personal guilt into parishioners, with modern versions just removing the ‘salvation through Christ’ aspect and replacing it with something else (usually the point of the movement).
Posted on 8/23/25 at 8:20 pm to Eurocat
quote:
It was founded as more of a "Deist" nation, not a Christian nation.
It's a lot more complicated than that.
Remember that the states ratified the Constitution and therefore the states created and legitimized the federal government on their authority, not the other way around.
And most (if not all) state charters at the time were very explicit and specifically endorsed Christianity. In most of the states you were ineligible to hold public office without a profession of faith in Christ. In at least 1 or 2 you couldn't even be a citizen of that state without a profession of faith in Christ.
It's true that several Founding Fathers were self-described deists, but even that distinction seems more of a political self-identification than the reality of the situation, since several of those figures still believed in Divine intervention (which is why it is logical to trust in God...With strict deism trusting in God makes no sense).
And even if they had been hard-line deists, if 90% of the state charters were founded upon Christ, and the states authorized the Constitution (which isn't explicitly Christian), where does that leave us?
I kind of think it means that it's just as correct to say that we were founded as a Christian nation as it does to say we weren't.
Posted on 8/23/25 at 8:21 pm to tide06
quote:
Washington for instance adopted certain portions of deism apparently and wouldn’t take communion but still professed himself a Christian.
Yes, this.
Exactly. The FFs were all over the place.
The state charters weren't.
Posted on 8/23/25 at 8:23 pm to Knight of Old
quote:
One other little factoid, Jesus was a Jew
Jesus was not a Jew, he was a judahite from the tribe of juda.
These people in Israel now are idumean / Judean .John hyrcanus lll ruled Juda and conquered ldumea and grafted the remaining people of idumea in the tribe of juda .
After John died his son took over and the ldumeans killed him and replaced him with king herod who was ldumean also.
They hated Jesus and killed him , Jesus told them they couldn't go where he goes and they were from their father the devil .
All the people from israel are descendents from him . Jesus was never called a Jew ever .
Posted on 8/23/25 at 8:23 pm to GumboPot
quote:
Talmud and Koran today. Both came centuries after the New Treatment.
The Old Testament is the word. Everything else, including the Talmud, the Koran, and the New Testament is interpretations, extrapolations, stories, etc. It's fine if you like any of them. No meat with dairy because of "you can't boil a kid (goat) in it's mother's milk?" F off with that. Cheeseburgers rule.
Paul or any of the apostles (and the Judaic councils that wrote the Talmud, etc) and their opinions mean little to nothing. You want to give relationship advice on how to have a successful marriage, fine, but those ain't the actual rules.
But back on topic, why does OP have such the rage against the term? I personally don't give a shite either way, because the Constitution is the supreme law of the land, and that's that. Nancy Pelosi, Obama and Biden aren't Jewish, so it seems like there are bigger things to rage at.
Posted on 8/23/25 at 8:30 pm to Bamadog75
quote:
Jesus was never called a Jew ever .
Wrong.
The woman at the well called him a Jew, the Romans called Him a Jew (King of the Jews sign), and Jesus called Himself a Jew when He told the woman at the well, "For salvation is from the Jews."
Unless you think that He thought someone or something other than Himself was salvation.
You've been falling for racist Google-bait.
Posted on 8/23/25 at 8:36 pm to Eurocat
quote:
It was founded as more of a "Deist" nation, not a Christian nation.
Freemasons built America.
The Christianity mythology came later, much later.
Posted on 8/23/25 at 8:36 pm to Eurocat
quote:
It was founded as more of a "Deist" nation, not a Christian nation.
False
Posted on 8/23/25 at 8:41 pm to LemmyLives
quote:Yep. If the founders want a theocracy, they would have founded one.
Founded by mostly Christians is different than "founded Christian."
Posted on 8/23/25 at 8:54 pm to Bamadog75
quote:
quote:One other little factoid, Jesus was a Jew Jesus was not a Jew, he was a judahite from the tribe of juda. These people in Israel now are idumean / Judean .John hyrcanus lll ruled Juda and conquered ldumea and grafted the remaining people of idumea in the tribe of juda . After John died his son took over and the ldumeans killed him and replaced him with king herod who was ldumean also. They hated Jesus and killed him , Jesus told them they couldn't go where he goes and they were from their father the devil . All the people from israel are descendents from him . Jesus was never called a Jew ever .
Listen, you wont find me defending Israel or Judaism but Jesus was a Jew. He was descended from David
Posted on 8/23/25 at 8:55 pm to Lakeboy7
quote:
quote:It was founded as more of a "Deist" nation, not a Christian nation. Freemasons built America. The Christianity mythology came later, much later
Where do you people come up with this garbage?
Posted on 8/23/25 at 8:56 pm to scottydoesntknow
quote:
Where do you people come up with this garbage?
Its in some non mythology books.
Posted on 8/23/25 at 9:03 pm to Kafka
quote:
Haym Salomon (also Solomon; April 7, 1740 – January 6, 1785) was a Polish-born American merchant best known for his actions during the American Revolution, where he was the prime financier to the Continental Congress.
I’ve studied the revolutionary war pretty closely but was not aware of his role on the financial side.
I’d even looked into Robert Morris pretty closely who is still well known in NY (Robert Moses Parkway, etc), but wasn’t aware that he had a Jewish partner in his efforts.
Without Robert Moses the revolution fails, he was that important.
Thanks for bringing this to the board.
Posted on 8/23/25 at 9:04 pm to bluestem75
quote:
He’d also take issues with the doctrine and practice with just about every Christian denomination and non-denominational church in America today.
And yay. Yet another thread where people can wear their doctrine on their sleeve and argue about it.
That's for another thread. This thread is about the founders of the U.S. and how their religious morals influenced the founding of this nation.
It certainly wasn't Islamic religious morals. We can probably get 100% agreement on that.
The argument is, Christian religious morals are the morals that influenced the birth of this nation and no other religion. And because Christians use the Old Testament, does not mean that a new religion is born, the Judeo-Christian religion. There is no such thing.
The Old Testament is intrinsic to Christianity and just because Jews use the Old Testament too we Christians don't call ourselves Judeo-Christians. We call ourselves Christians. By the same token Jews don't call themselves Christo-Jews because we both use the Old Testament.
The ENTIRE reason the term Judeo-Christian is used is political. It's used as a soft cudgel to send your tax dollars to Zionists and feel good about it.
Posted on 8/23/25 at 9:05 pm to djmed
quote:
How many different Christian groups were there?
Quakers
Presbyterians
Jesuits
Methodists
Amish
Mennonite
Baptists
Catholics
Some of them have gone to war with each other
We fight all the time.
Posted on 8/23/25 at 9:07 pm to SlayTime
quote:
Tell me you’ve never read the Talmud without telling me you’ve never read the Talmud.
Tell me you’ve never read the Bible without telling me you’ve never read the Bible
Posted on 8/23/25 at 9:12 pm to Narax
quote:
The term "Judæo Christian" appears in a letter by Alexander McCaul which is dated October 17, 1821. The term in this case referred to Jewish converts to Christianity. The term was similarly used by Joseph Wolff in 1829, in reference to a type of church that would observe some Jewish traditions in order to convert Jews. Mark Silk states in the early 19th century the term was "most widely used (in French as well as English) to refer to the early followers of Jesus who opposed" the wishes of Paul the Apostle and wanted "to restrict the message of Jesus to Jews and who insisted on maintaining Jewish law and ritual".
Fascinating.
quote:
But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned.
For before certain men came from James, he was eating with the Gentiles; but when they came he drew back and separated himself, fearing the circumcision party.
And the rest of the Jews acted hypocritically along with him, so that even Barnabas was led astray by their hypocrisy.
But when I saw that their conduct was not in step with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all, “If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you force the Gentiles to live like Jews?”
-Galatians 2:11-14
Posted on 8/23/25 at 9:34 pm to GumboPot
quote:
The U.S. was founded as a Christian nation. Not this Judeo-Christian crap.
You do know the Christ dude in Christian was Jewish, right?
You also realize that for 300 years the early church practiced mostly Jewish traditions, then the Roman govt formed the Catholic church and fricked all that up, right?
You also realize the early founders hated the Catholics, because they screwed up the Judeo part of the Christian church? And that it took like 200 years before we elected a Catholic to lead the nation?
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