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re: The Test that Grades Doctors, the Elite Wants to Nerf that Too

Posted on 6/18/19 at 8:30 am to
Posted by aTmTexas Dillo
East Texas Lake
Member since Sep 2018
19339 posts
Posted on 6/18/19 at 8:30 am to
quote:

Negative.


Ok. So they require less? How so? I really don't know. Four years of medical school and then a typical residency or maybe not? I go to a particular specialist in a group practice with about a dozen physicians. There are at least two osteopathic physicians in that practice. The MDs don't seem to mind.
Posted by pjab
Member since Mar 2016
5728 posts
Posted on 6/18/19 at 8:30 am to
If there is not an objective measure, recommendations will play a much larger role. If you do not have access to recommendations that matter to the specialty you want to peruse, you want/need an objective measure to prove yourself.

“Elite” programs are incentous. They have a wide reach as well. One phone can separate you from the pack.
Posted by aTmTexas Dillo
East Texas Lake
Member since Sep 2018
19339 posts
Posted on 6/18/19 at 8:35 am to
What blows me away in my part of East Texas is a Physicians Assistant who advertises on radio being able to do all sorts of stuff like hormone replacement, sexual disfunction and all sorts of things seemingly complicated and nuanced work. I just shake my head. There has to be a physician in the loop somewhere I'd hope? But to argue about the equivalence of an MD to a DO is a little myopic. There are now the Physicians Assistants and Nurse Practitioners out there in the mix.
Posted by Bleeding purple
Athens, Texas
Member since Sep 2007
25326 posts
Posted on 6/18/19 at 8:43 am to
quote:

Sounds like all the D.O.s and Caribbean M.D.s are celebrating.



You know the funny thing is I can and have passed all the allopathic exams with flying colors but an MD couldn't pass the osteopathic boards because they dont get the same breadth of training as DOs.

Posted by AMS
Member since Apr 2016
6530 posts
Posted on 6/18/19 at 8:43 am to
DOs get the same medical education + Osteopathic manipulative training.
Posted by pjab
Member since Mar 2016
5728 posts
Posted on 6/18/19 at 8:43 am to
That’s great for your friend’s daughter.

Check out competitive residency match rates. DOs have a much tougher time getting to in demand field and programs. They have to crush Step 1. Take away Step 1, the few spots DOs get now will go away.
Posted by Taxing Authority
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
60677 posts
Posted on 6/18/19 at 8:48 am to
quote:

At present an LSU 3rd-year with a great Step 1 score is treated preferentially over a Duke or Yale 3rd-yr with an average score. Take the scores away, and the same LSU applicant will be underselected for residency.

Maybe a feature to some? Somebody has to keep the upstarts down. It’s what authoritarian elitists—do.
Posted by aTmTexas Dillo
East Texas Lake
Member since Sep 2018
19339 posts
Posted on 6/18/19 at 8:49 am to
quote:

Check out competitive residency match rates.

No. I'm not really that interested in this topic. All my physicians are MDs.
Posted by Bleeding purple
Athens, Texas
Member since Sep 2007
25326 posts
Posted on 6/18/19 at 8:53 am to
Pointing to bigotry in the residency match process to justify a bigoted view that DOs are incapable or less academically inclined is laughably short sighted.
Posted by pjab
Member since Mar 2016
5728 posts
Posted on 6/18/19 at 8:58 am to
I’m not trying to argue that DOs are less capable. My point is DOs should want a USMLE to be as objective as possible to not reduce opportunities.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
131144 posts
Posted on 6/18/19 at 8:58 am to
quote:

So they require less?
Nope.
Gaining entrance to DO school is less competitive. But once in, it's 4-yrs and similar to med school. Emphases are slightly different. DO's are taught some "chiropractic" musculoskeletal manipulative techniques that MDs are not. MDs get some traditional course training which DOs do not. Overall though, the important measure is residency, not med school or osteopathy school.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
131144 posts
Posted on 6/18/19 at 9:00 am to
quote:

DOs should want a USMLE to be as objective as possible to not reduce opportunities.
100%.
Falling away from that standard would be a game changer for DOs. It would really hurt those folks.
Posted by MeatCleaverWeaver
Member since Oct 2013
22175 posts
Posted on 6/18/19 at 9:00 am to
You just can’t have enough diversity when it comes to thoracic surgery.
Posted by UnitedFruitCompany
Bay Area
Member since Nov 2018
3721 posts
Posted on 6/18/19 at 9:01 am to
You ever hang out with med school kids? There is a reason some of them flunk out. There is also a reason some of them never get past the Step exams. There is a further reason why the actual licensing exams after step 3 are so goddamn stressful.

frick this lowest common denominator shite. What the hell happened to being the best and the brightest? I dont want some jack leg operating on my inevitable open heart who is only there because of lower standards.

This probably wont get very far though. Good Doctors are an ornery bunch.
Posted by blackrose890
Fayetteville, AR
Member since Apr 2009
6336 posts
Posted on 6/18/19 at 9:07 am to
The USMLE Step 1 is a gatekeeper for certain residencies. A friend of mine, who is likely to be a better doctor than I ever will, barely passed (test anxiety) and will likely never get their specialty of choice now. I dont mind the score moving to pass/fail honestly and dont see it as a Marxist move.
This post was edited on 6/18/19 at 9:08 am
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
131144 posts
Posted on 6/18/19 at 9:35 am to
quote:

who is likely to be a better doctor than I ever will, barely passed (test anxiety) and will likely never get their specialty of choice now
Not being mean, but "test anxiety" translates in other ways.
"Test anxiety" translates to intraoperative debilitating panic when an aortic root falls apart during cannulation.
"Test anxiety" translates to dysfunctional collapse when a patient needs an emergent airway.
"Test anxiety" translates to procedural failure when a coronary dissection occurs during a cardiac cath.
"Test anxiety" translates to freezing up during a code.

It is what it is.
Posted by Stingray
Shreveport
Member since Sep 2007
12438 posts
Posted on 6/18/19 at 9:44 am to
quote:

I dont mind the score moving to pass/fail honestly and dont see it as a Marxist move.


You need to read more about Marxism.
Posted by Centinel
Idaho
Member since Sep 2016
44045 posts
Posted on 6/18/19 at 9:48 am to
quote:

"Test anxiety" translates to intraoperative debilitating panic when an aortic root falls apart during cannulation.
"Test anxiety" translates to dysfunctional collapse when a patient needs an emergent airway.
"Test anxiety" translates to procedural failure when a coronary dissection occurs during a cardiac cath.
"Test anxiety" translates to freezing up during a code.


And a more diverse medical community would effectively mitigate this through shared experiences.



Posted by Lima Whiskey
Member since Apr 2013
22594 posts
Posted on 6/18/19 at 9:53 am to
quote:

frick this lowest common denominator shite. What the hell happened to being the best and the brightest?


We’ve grown uncomfortable with elitism.
Posted by Bleeding purple
Athens, Texas
Member since Sep 2007
25326 posts
Posted on 6/18/19 at 9:57 am to
There is also some data manipulation that occurs due to the allopathic and osteopathic match being two separate entities with dissimilar timing. Many DO grads would like to apply to multiple residencies both allopathic and osteopathic. But since osteopathic match date is earlier (at least when I went through) many commit to osteopath residencies and are not considered further for the allopathic match. Thus they entered but didnt match (allopathic) making data look bad.
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