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re: The Test that Grades Doctors, the Elite Wants to Nerf that Too

Posted on 6/18/19 at 10:00 am to
Posted by Bleeding purple
Athens, Texas
Member since Sep 2007
25315 posts
Posted on 6/18/19 at 10:00 am to
For the record, I am in favor of appropriate and difficult testing to separate the grain from the chaff.

Does it mean we are forcing students to fit a specific mold to attain a specific position? Yep, and that is ok.
Posted by Boatshoes
Member since Dec 2017
6775 posts
Posted on 6/18/19 at 11:25 am to
Whites and asians have been discriminated against by medical school admissions committees in order to admit "diversity" candidates for some time. Same thing goes for men. Many of them end up going to DO or Caribbean medical schools as a result.

If you're looking for the most intelligent physicians, you should be using those parameters rather than a specific degree as a marker.

It sounds like academic medicine is trying to change the USMLE to encourage this sort of discrimination in the selection of residency candidates.
Posted by MrCarton
Paradise Valley, MT
Member since Dec 2009
20231 posts
Posted on 6/18/19 at 11:48 am to
quote:

I'm sure her healing hands will work as expertly as an M.D.


For 3 or 4 years, until she gets married to another doctor and drops out of the profession, wasting valuable space and training for virtually zero return.
Posted by aTmTexas Dillo
East Texas Lake
Member since Sep 2018
15084 posts
Posted on 6/18/19 at 12:18 pm to
quote:

For 3 or 4 years, until she gets married to another doctor and drops out of the profession, wasting valuable space and training for virtually zero return.


Right. I'm sure this will happen as it obviously has to all other female physicians.
Posted by AMS
Member since Apr 2016
6495 posts
Posted on 6/18/19 at 12:27 pm to
Or they are realizing that standardized tests for the medical field (MCAT USMLE COMLEX etc) are not strongly predictive of anything other than success taking future standardized tests.

IMO de-emphasizing standardized tests is a win. Residencies will be looking more holistically at applicants research, volunteer, school involvement, etc. More well rounded selection is probably better.

The folks that still get outstanding scores on those standardized tests will be still be noticed and favored over the closer to middle of the pack applicants. Changes like this wont affect the most competitive residencies greatly.

I find it odd that such high focus is on a score that is only predictive of future scores. High test scores are not indicative of clinical aptitude which is important for the real world.

Posted by LSUERDOC
Member since Jul 2013
2608 posts
Posted on 6/19/19 at 2:59 am to
Preach!
Posted by IsWhatITis
Member since Jun 2019
91 posts
Posted on 6/19/19 at 4:23 am to
As long as my doctor is brown I dont care if he/she/it is worth a damn!
Posted by NC_Tigah
Carolinas
Member since Sep 2003
123929 posts
Posted on 6/19/19 at 4:37 am to
quote:

For 3 or 4 years, until she gets married to another doctor and drops out of the profession, wasting valuable space and training for virtually zero return.

Right. I'm sure this will happen as it obviously has to all other female physicians
You're obviously being sarcastic in response to an over-statement.
But let's fame the thing in real world terms.

We do have a shortage of doctors. The next wave of government solutions to that is to not open up more medical school slots. Instead the plan is to expand privileges of unsupervised physician extenders, Nurse Practitioners and Physician Assistants, and convince the public the care is just as good. Once we degrade the system, we can more easily transition to VA care for all. So that's where we are headed, and why many feel the shortage of doctors is not accidental.

Meanwhile, medicine is a very demanding profession. Our government has made it much moreso. With the panoply of obamacare (2009+the ACA) impositions, physician compensation declined, in some instances dramatically. Nonclinical frustrations and costs escalated. With forced introduction of EMRs, patient contact and bedside time was diminished. Patient costs often went way up, while choice of doctor declined. Our neighbor says she now pays twice as much to see someone she doesn't know, and "he's on the computer all the time." Not a good environment.

In a world where a physician was considering cutting back or quitting altogether, the incentive to do so skyrocketed during the last decade.

Juxtapose that with female physicians facing all sorts of life-balance impediments, both real and perceived, rendering a challenging field even more demanding for them.
It can be and is a major stressor.

How much so?
Well for example, consider that female physicians are more than twice as likely to commit suicide as the general population.

OTOH, female physicians also face fewer impediments, both real and perceived, to scaling back, working less, spending more time with family, or dropping out entirely.

So it is that though 50% of medical students and residents in training are female, women comprise 1/3rd of the workforce. Of that 1/3rd, 42% are part-time vs 7% of men. LINK

ETA: The NHS faces similar issues, but in an environment far less demanding of MDs on a time basis. LINK
This post was edited on 6/19/19 at 4:46 am
Posted by Boatshoes
Member since Dec 2017
6775 posts
Posted on 6/19/19 at 4:43 am to
quote:

For 3 or 4 years, until she gets married to another doctor and drops out of the profession, 


This rarely happens. A lot of the women in my medical school class were uber feminists. Many of them went in to marry uneducated, underemployed mannies who could stay at home and take care of their kids. Most male physicians who marry within the health care field end up with nurses.
This post was edited on 6/19/19 at 4:44 am
Posted by IslandBuckeye
Boca Chica, Panama
Member since Apr 2018
10067 posts
Posted on 6/19/19 at 5:30 am to
quote:

You know the funny thing is I can and have passed all the allopathic exams with flying colors but an MD couldn't pass


Can you treat infectious disease? How about acute coronary syndromes? Can you tell the difference between ischemic and hemorrhagic stroke?
Posted by NC_Tigah
Carolinas
Member since Sep 2003
123929 posts
Posted on 6/19/19 at 5:46 am to
quote:

Can you treat infectious disease? How about acute coronary syndromes? Can you tell the difference between ischemic and hemorrhagic stroke?
I'd suspect the answer would be "yes" to each of those.

The real question relates to usefulness of the information he cites as being uniquely taught to DO's.

For example, a Bangladeshi physician may have passed all the allopathic exams with flying colors. Like the DO, she could similarly observe a US MD couldn't pass her exams in Bangladesh. How pertinent is that to patient care here?
Posted by weev
Member since Jun 2019
69 posts
Posted on 6/19/19 at 5:58 am to
I have a friend that recently went through Med School saying it’s crazy the effort they put into getting minorities through. Similar to HS with all this extra help even on tests, been that way for years. He’s a centrist liberal yet said he would be very wary to take their kids to younger minority doctors just because of the possibility they really aren’t as knowledgeable/qualified.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Carolinas
Member since Sep 2003
123929 posts
Posted on 6/19/19 at 6:01 am to
quote:

it’s crazy the effort they put into getting minorities through. Similar to HS with all this extra help even on tests
That has not been my experience FWIW.
Posted by IslandBuckeye
Boca Chica, Panama
Member since Apr 2018
10067 posts
Posted on 6/19/19 at 6:01 am to
If the poster I was responding to is a DO, then I agree with you. I have worked with DO and interned (Pharmacy) at an Osteopathic Hospital that trained future DO. I have respect for them. They have studied in both worlds.

My question for him was based on curiosity if he was DO or some other branch of homeopathic medicine that eschews all non-homeopathic medicine.
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