re: The tariffs will make or break the Trump presidency.

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Why would manufacturing move away from the population centers to rural red states?

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I don't know, try asking Hyundai

It amazes how people still don't understand how Trump negotiates. Lol, he will meet with all the countries in the next few months and they will negotiate their tariffs lower. They will think they won because the got their tariffs down. Trump will win again because he wanted them to negotiate a tariff that they never would have agreed to otherwise. It's as if people think that Trump is doing all of these things because he's stupid. What they don't realize is he has very smart economic people behind him. He tells them what he wants to do, and they work on a plan to help him accomplish his goal. Scott Bessent and Howard Lutnick are 2 of the most successful businessmen of our time. They aren't a couple of professors who have no real world experience.

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Know how the I the tariffs are good for the American people?

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Yep. People who hate this country are in a rage. That’s how you know you’re squarely over the target.

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He can always take the loss and back off this tariff shite, but if he loses control of that border or takes us to war, then he'll be viewed as a tremendous failure.

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I guess it depends on who you think will view him that way.

No one but people who support Trump think that Biden is a tremendous failure for losing (or just giving up) control of the border.

And he's the only one in umpty-nine years who hasn't seen a new war start during his administration, so if that happens he won't be any different than anybody else.

No, I think the OP is correct; he's pushed all his chips to the middle of the table on tariffs.

Now if you're talking about his base seeing him as a failure, what I'm starting to see is that they are so ignorant of how economics works that they literally just parrot what they have seen or heard someone else say without understanding the implications of what it means.

Which is why you see the same people who rail against "Globalism" and bleeding from their buttholes about needing to repatriate manufacturing cheering when other countries respond to Trumps threats by dropping their own tariffs, a result which will ensure that manufacturing stays abroad and is literally Globalism. It's NAFTA expanded.

So my guess is that Trump figures there's only one way this tariff thing can play out without his base declaring that he won a 6D victory (since they will clap like trained seals for any outcome, not realizing that some outcomes produce the opposite of what they say they want), and that is for him to back down without other countries dropping their tariffs or any companies relocating manufacturing here.

And I'm sure he also figures (rightly) that the media and the left will say it's a disaster no matter what happens, so he's really just playing to the base.

Ain't populism awesome? This is the senseless shite that it motivates people to do.

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It amazes how people still don't understand how Trump negotiates. Lol, he will meet with all the countries in the next few months and they will negotiate their tariffs lower. They will think they won because the got their tariffs down. Trump will win again because he wanted them to negotiate a tariff that they never would have agreed to otherwise. It's as if people think that Trump is doing all of these things because he's stupid. What they don't realize is he has very smart economic people behind him. He tells them what he wants to do, and they work on a plan to help him accomplish his goal. Scott Bessent and Howard Lutnick are 2 of the most successful businessmen of our time. They aren't a couple of professors who have no real world experience.

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So all of the talk about repatriating manufacturing was BS, then?

Because if what you predict happens, that won't.

We will literally have expanded NAFTA and Globalism.

I personally am happy with that...but about 90% of this board regularly makes posts that indicate that they would not be.

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So all of the talk about repatriating manufacturing was BS, then?

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What I've discovered this morning is THAT is the question.

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Which is why you see the same people who rail against "Globalism" and bleeding from their buttholes about needing to repatriate manufacturing cheering when other countries respond to Trumps threats by dropping their own tariffs, a result which will ensure that manufacturing stays abroad and is literally Globalism.

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It's a strange thing to watch.

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What I've discovered this morning is THAT is the question.

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Yep.

Me too.

But it's amazing that they don't understand that.

And SDV is shitting his pants afraid that they will catch on.

With great risk comes great reward.

In George Washington's time many American colonists said it would be suicide to attempt to take on the world's most powerful nation.

George Washington and the founding fathers said,

"hold my beer",

and the rest is history.

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There's no difference in those two groups

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This is true. Both sides believe everything they read or hear that is in line with their thinking. You can't question anything, or you risk be exiled from the group.