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re: The Scientific Establishment Is Finally Starting To Take Intelligent Design Seriously
Posted on 5/19/22 at 3:02 pm to Flats
Posted on 5/19/22 at 3:02 pm to Flats
quote:
There's nothing wrong with saying "we know evolution can do this, but we're not sure it can do that." They can't bring themselves to say that.
Thats fair enough but then you get these guys that suggest because that is the case it should all be thrown out and we should just believe the Bible.
2
Posted on 5/19/22 at 3:04 pm to ThuperThumpin
quote:
we should just believe the Bible.
Yes.
Posted on 5/19/22 at 3:08 pm to thetempleowl
quote:Yeah, that is a belief I just don't get. Fauna and flora from each of the various Phanerozoic periods are both unique, and well delineated in the fossil record.
So you don't believe in evolution?
The presumed evolutionary jump from Australopithecines to genus Homo is a bit different and should be open to some realm of debate.
Posted on 5/19/22 at 3:10 pm to squid_hunt
quote:
Yes.
No scientific inquiry whatsoever huh...Just the Bible?
Posted on 5/19/22 at 3:14 pm to ThuperThumpin
quote:
Thats fair enough but then you get these guys that suggest because that is the case it should all be thrown out and we should just believe the Bible.
Depends on what you mean by "it". Proponents of evolution aren't above injecting some metaphysics of their own and claiming that it's all one package, and you either accept all of "it" or you're a religious kook. I've never run across any proponents of ID who want to throw it all out. They'd just like some honesty about how much of it is hard science and how much of it is driven by ideology.
I didn't even post my standard objection that I typically do in this topic. 99% of the time you'll have 20 pages discussing "evolution" and not a single person will nail down what they mean by that. This thread is no exception and I'm guilty as well this time.
Posted on 5/19/22 at 3:19 pm to aubie101
Intelligent Design. A poor attempt by those of the religious ilk to justify a god by wrapping it in pseudo-science.
This post was edited on 5/19/22 at 4:00 pm
Posted on 5/19/22 at 3:20 pm to ccomeaux
quote:Leaving out a detail or two on that "move towards complexity and increasingly intelligent life on it's own"
The fact that 'science' takes what Darwin saw on an isolated island with no control so seriously is an indictment on the scientific process and they insist on it because when you get them to the point of creation, their science breaks down. It's not that complicated, we live in a universe that devolves into chaos and decay and does move towards complexity and increasingly intelligent life on it's own. End of story.
It was nice in the 1800s to get those grants to watch boobies fck
Posted on 5/19/22 at 3:21 pm to Flats
I have taken senior level college courses on the subject and it something that has interested me since I was A kid so I try and keep abreast of it.
I’m not an expert but I’m above average
And no offense but frick you.
I’m not an expert but I’m above average
And no offense but frick you.
This post was edited on 5/19/22 at 3:22 pm
Posted on 5/19/22 at 3:24 pm to Flats
quote:
I've never run across any proponents of ID who want to throw it all out.
I guess I would ask who do you mean by proponents? I mean I'm open to the idea or philosophy of intelligent design. I think if there is proof of a creator that scientist will be the ones to find it... but I dont share views like Liberator when he says stuff like:
quote:
That ANY body somehow believes that the logic and "science" of "Evolution" is remotely possible with ALL the info on
genetic...blows my mind.
This post was edited on 5/19/22 at 3:25 pm
Posted on 5/19/22 at 3:28 pm to Flats
quote:
They'd just like some honesty about how much of it is hard science and how much of it is driven by ideology.
Fair enough to question that as well but focus on that instead of trying to elevate ID into anything other than philosophy and speculation at this point.
Posted on 5/19/22 at 3:29 pm to ThuperThumpin
I believe in real evidence I can see and the fossil record. Not brainiac atheists scientists with an axe to grind against GOD they dont believe in. Hominin bones do not reveal a continuous upward progression from ape to man, but rather reveal a clear separation between the human type and the ape type. The evidence is not there. They can speculate all they want.
This post was edited on 5/19/22 at 3:35 pm
Posted on 5/19/22 at 3:30 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
but frick you.
Posted on 5/19/22 at 3:34 pm to ThuperThumpin
quote:
I guess I would ask who do you mean by proponents?
Ok, that's an admittedly broad term. Obviously anybody can be a proponent; I was talking about people like Behe or Dembski. Dembski's worked with people who don't have any religious views at all, they just think modern evolution has become a cult that shouts down any questioners.
quote:
I think if there is proof of a creator that scientist will be the ones to find it...
I doubt it, and that's why I said this gets philosophical. How can you prove something that's outside science with the scientific method? All you can do is eventually run out of theories and "design" is the only thing left, but that's not proof and people will be happy to reject it.
Posted on 5/19/22 at 3:36 pm to ThuperThumpin
quote:
Fair enough to question that as well but focus on that instead of trying to elevate ID into anything other than philosophy and speculation at this point.
What I'm pointing out is that they've already drifted into philosophy and speculation with some of their claims. They're already in those realms right where you say ID is, they just don't want to admit it.
Posted on 5/19/22 at 3:45 pm to AggieHank86
The existence of life in any form tends to fly in the face of the natural order of nature, which in fact is disorder (entropy).
Life forms, and their procreation, is a very orderly process, with the exception of harmful mutations. Life couldn't exist in a universe dominated by chaos unless there was some sort of "intelligent design."
Life forms, and their procreation, is a very orderly process, with the exception of harmful mutations. Life couldn't exist in a universe dominated by chaos unless there was some sort of "intelligent design."
Posted on 5/19/22 at 3:50 pm to ThuperThumpin
quote:
No scientific inquiry whatsoever huh...Just the Bible?
My base assumption is the Bible is true. I'm a very fact based person who loves to study and learn especially in physics. I just believe God is the first cause. What do you believe is the first cause?
Posted on 5/19/22 at 4:09 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
The evidence is just much stronger for intelligent design than random chance.
No it isn't.
quote:
Especially when you get complex organ systems like brains, eyes, etc.
I mean, it takes more "faith" to buy into pure random chance, than some level of engineering going on.
God, if you people knew anything about these systems, there are several features that only an absolute moron would purposefully design into a complex system.
Posted on 5/19/22 at 4:12 pm to aubie101
That article is light on actual evidence of anyone actually supporting intelligent design. Behe's description of Darwinian evolution is very stupid. Just a really bad argument.
Posted on 5/19/22 at 4:13 pm to Flats
quote:
What I'm pointing out is that they've already drifted into philosophy and speculation with some of their claims.
List some examples.
Posted on 5/19/22 at 4:13 pm to squid_hunt
quote:
What do you believe is the first cause?
I have no idea and as I get older I'm more comfortable with having no idea. I do enjoy speculation though.
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