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AlwysATgr
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Member since Apr 2008
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The Real Lesson of 9/11 Isn’t a Story About Islamophobia
Interesting article about 9-11 and Islamophobia.

Article by Jonathan Tobin

quote:

Though there was little or no evidence to support it (surge of Islamophobia), a myth that there was a post-9/11 backlash against Muslims in America was embraced by much of the mainstream media and others who purported to advocate for civil rights. Among the leaders of this effort was the Council of American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), a group that had its origins as a front to raise funds for Hamas terrorists in the United States.


Big Scrub TX
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Austin
Member since Dec 2013
25962 posts

re: The Real Lesson of 9/11 Isn’t a Story About Islamophobia
I remember when O'Reilly had such a hard on to out the CAIR guy in the months/years after 9-11. I can't remember the actual beef, but I remember thinking O'Reilly was right.


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Mid Iowa Tiger
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Member since Feb 2008
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re: The Real Lesson of 9/11 Isn’t a Story About Islamophobia
So here’s the thing. I will preface this with I live in an exclusively Muslim neighborhood (I am the only Kafir in the entire neighborhood) which surrounds the Mosque. Even my neighbors who are for the most part food and decent people dream of and strive for a world where Islam is the only and total religion.

That is who they are. That is what they want. That is what they are working toward. To be truthful all religions should want the same.

I am Catholic and I believe salvation is through a personal, intimate relationship with God through his son Jesus Christ. I believe that relationship is best lived and brought about through a vibrant practice of Catholicism. Out of love for everyone and a desire for them to spend eternity in paradise I want people to have Christ as their savior.

I think that relationship comes from living an example of Christ’s love and teaching about the faith where it makes sense. Many Muslims do as well. However a big chunk of them think it comes from killing those who disagree and frightening others into adherence. That is a bastardized view but one that is more prevalent than white supremacy in conservatism. Yet you see what is highlighted.


memphisplaya
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2009
82869 posts

re: The Real Lesson of 9/11 Isn’t a Story About Islamophobia
quote:

Even my neighbors who are for the most part food and decent people dream of and strive for a world where Islam is the only and total religion.


So how does Muslim taste? Is it sandy or an explosion of flavor?

Ok that’s my bigoted joke for the day
This post was edited on 9/15 at 7:19 am


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captainFid
Alabama Fan
Vestavia, AL
Member since Dec 2014
1580 posts

re: The Real Lesson of 9/11 Isn’t a Story About Islamophobia
quote:

So here’s the thing. I will preface this with I live in an exclusively Muslim neighborhood (I am the only Kafir in the entire neighborhood) which surrounds the Mosque. Even my neighbors who are for the most part food and decent people dream of and strive for a world where Islam is the only and total religion.

That is who they are. That is what they want. That is what they are working toward. To be truthful all religions should want the same.

I am Catholic and I believe salvation is through a personal, intimate relationship with God through his son Jesus Christ. I believe that relationship is best lived and brought about through a vibrant practice of Catholicism. Out of love for everyone and a desire for them to spend eternity in paradise I want people to have Christ as their savior.

I think that relationship comes from living an example of Christ’s love and teaching about the faith where it makes sense. Many Muslims do as well. However a big chunk of them think it comes from killing those who disagree and frightening others into adherence. That is a bastardized view but one that is more prevalent than white supremacy in conservatism. Yet you see what is highlighted.


Very nice post and a good message to start the day.


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delta saint
Member since Aug 2021
180 posts

re: The Real Lesson of 9/11 Isn’t a Story About Islamophobia
I don’t entirely agree with this. I was 14 on 9/11, but I distinctly remember more Islamophobia after that. I remember watching the coverage and absolutely hating Muslims. My parents certainly became more Islamophobic. Then when we bombed Afghanistan my dad called me joyfully screaming “WE BOMBED OSAMA.”

Granted, I was 14, but you can’t tell me i was the only person whose islamophobia kicked in or increased drastically after 9/11.


LSUGrrrl
LSU Fan
Frisco, TX
Member since Jul 2007
19778 posts

re: The Real Lesson of 9/11 Isn’t a Story About Islamophobia
quote:

Then when we bombed Afghanistan my dad called me joyfully screaming “WE BOMBED OSAMA.”

This isn’t Islamophobia. This is the very natural, human response of feeling like justice has been given for a grievous wrong.


gothamdawg
Georgia Fan
NYC
Member since Nov 2015
144 posts

re: The Real Lesson of 9/11 Isn’t a Story About Islamophobia
quote:

However a big chunk of them think it comes from killing those who disagree and frightening others into adherence.


I believe I have a pretty good perspective on this, since I am Muslim by birth, and grew up in a Muslim country.

I don't believe I have personally ever met a Muslim who believes in the above philosophy, which is to subjugate other religions with violence.

But just as there are white supremacists, there are extremists who do believe in this philosophy. I would put this at approx 3% of the population, while I'm guessing white supremacists may be at .05%?, so a significantly larger proportion, but definitely not a "big chunk".

Unfortunately, there is a lot of illiteracy in the Muslim world, and some mullahs prey upon this lack of knowledge to brainwash their disciples into believing this type of bastardized version of the religion.

All that said, the terrorism on 9/11 was not due to religion, but due to politics. OBL believed that since he could not attack the "near enemy" (the governments in Saudi Arabia and Egypt), that he would attack the country that supported and propped up those regimes, the "far enemy", United States.

So the attacks had little to do with spreading Islam.





andouille
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Member since Dec 2004
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re: The Real Lesson of 9/11 Isn’t a Story About Islamophobia
Islamophobia is very smart, you should fear an enemy who wants to destroy you. If you don't have Islamophobia you are a fool.


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captainFid
Alabama Fan
Vestavia, AL
Member since Dec 2014
1580 posts

re: The Real Lesson of 9/11 Isn’t a Story About Islamophobia
quote:

But just as there are white supremacists, there are extremists who do believe in this philosophy. I would put this at approx 3% of the population, while I'm guessing white supremacists may be at .05%?, so a significantly larger proportion, but definitely not a "big chunk".



Though I appreciate your thoughtful post, your view may not be as accurate as you believe.

Here Sam Harris discusses the difference (which I believe is real) between supremacists and Islamic's 'promoting' their faith.

YouTube - Sam Harris and concentric circles...


delta saint
Member since Aug 2021
180 posts

re: The Real Lesson of 9/11 Isn’t a Story About Islamophobia
quote:

This isn’t Islamophobia. This is the very natural, human response of feeling like justice has been given for a grievous wrong.


It was part of it. Also the first time I heard the term raghead being thrown around


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Mid Iowa Tiger
Iowa State Fan
Undisclosed Secure Location
Member since Feb 2008
12139 posts

re: The Real Lesson of 9/11 Isn’t a Story About Islamophobia
quote:

but definitely not a "big chunk"


You are correct. I should not have said a big chunk. I don't believe overall of the billion-plus Muslims it is a big chunk. It is a big chunk that gets headlines.


Most Muslims are like my neighbors - working to feed the poor, supporting first responders, and that type of stuff.

I will also say, of all the neighborhoods I Have lived in this is the most welcoming group of people I have lived around. Not that we have a lot in common, but no fewer than 4-5 households offered help while I was moving in and every holiday on their calendar when it ends my kids get a little basket of goodies from the other kids in the neighborhood.



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biglego
LSU Fan
Ask your mom where I been
Member since Nov 2007
65688 posts

re: The Real Lesson of 9/11 Isn’t a Story About Islamophobia
quote:

Though there was little or no evidence to support it (surge of Islamophobia), a myth that there was a post-9/11 backlash against Muslims in America was embraced by much of the mainstream media and others who purported to advocate for civil rights.


Liberals looooove the thought of white guys bearing up innocent Muslims. Gets them hot and bothered. That it rarely ever happens is an inconvenience that can be ignored.

Such a racist bigoted nation. Couldn’t even muster up a decent pogrom after 9/11.


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blueboy
LSU Fan
Member since Apr 2006
46909 posts

re: The Real Lesson of 9/11 Isn’t a Story About Islamophobia
The narrative worked like a charm. The left is fully cucked to believe it's racist to criticize Islam.


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FearlessFreep
Auburn Fan
Baja Alabama
Member since Nov 2009
12712 posts

re: The Real Lesson of 9/11 Isn’t a Story About Islamophobia
quote:

But just as there are white supremacists, there are extremists who do believe in this philosophy. I would put this at approx 3% of the population, while I'm guessing white supremacists may be at .05%?, so a significantly larger proportion, but definitely not a "big chunk".
To put some raw numbers to your percentages:

Approximate European/White world population: 800 million
800 x .0005 = 400,000 white supremacists

Approximate Population of Followers of Islam: 2 billion
2000 x .03 = 60 million believers in violence against non-Muslims

Obviously these are unscientific projections based on your own estimates. But to put it in practical terms, the Biden administration just airlifted approximately 100,000 citizens of a nation that is 95% Muslim to the US without any formal vetting. Can you imagine the havoc that ~3000 Afghans committed to violent jihad could create in a country if given the opportunity?

And before you ask, I don’t consider myself Islamaphobic - the only thing I fear is a Federal government willing to implement a police state-level surveillance apparatus to guard against an “enemy” (violent white supremacists) entirely out of proportion to its threat potential, while simultaneously increasing the possibility of a real threat from violent Islamists.

Almost seems like they are doing this all on purpose.


(ETA: went back and re-read your post and realized you said “.05 percent” - my original calculation was for “.5 percent”. Corrected.)
This post was edited on 9/15 at 10:58 am


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Snipe
Member since Nov 2015
6249 posts

re: The Real Lesson of 9/11 Isn’t a Story About Islamophobia
quote:

hough I appreciate your thoughtful post, your view may not be as accurate as you believe.

Here Sam Harris discusses the difference (which I believe is real) between supremacists and Islamic's 'promoting' their faith.

YouTube - Sam Harris and concentric circles...


Not saying Sam Harris' personal experiences are wrong but my personal experiences validate what gothamdawg's post suggests.

From my experience living many years in Islamic regions the vast majority of Muslims do not want violence and do not want others to be forced to believe as they do. The have faith that their beliefs are the true beliefs and hope all come to God by their own choosing. Very much like every other religion.

They want their children to grow up happy and successful. They do not wish them to have to experience war, death and violence at anyone's hands.

And much like every other religion, and culture they are very reticent to speak out publicly on the flaws and radicals who use their religion for things they do not agree with. Doing so especially in a radical Islamic controlled region could have critical consequences.

You don't have to look very hard in this country to see proof that the vocal (sometimes radical) minority seems to speak for the majority and sometimes, usually gives a false understanding of the whole group.

Anyway that's my personal experience.


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AlwysATgr
LSU Fan
Member since Apr 2008
11766 posts

re: The Real Lesson of 9/11 Isn’t a Story About Islamophobia
quote:

don't believe I have personally ever met a Muslim who believes in the above philosophy, which is to subjugate other religions with violence.


Islam is an old and large religion. It is not monolithic. That said, is there even a single predominant Muslim nation that practices religious freedom?

Islam was conceived in violence, codified in violence, and propagated in violence.


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gothamdawg
Georgia Fan
NYC
Member since Nov 2015
144 posts

re: The Real Lesson of 9/11 Isn’t a Story About Islamophobia
quote:

The Real Lesson of 9/11 Isn’t a Story About Islamophobia
quote:
But just as there are white supremacists, there are extremists who do believe in this philosophy. I would put this at approx 3% of the population, while I'm guessing white supremacists may be at .05%?, so a significantly larger proportion, but definitely not a "big chunk".


Though I appreciate your thoughtful post, your view may not be as accurate as you believe.

Here Sam Harris discusses the difference (which I believe is real) between supremacists and Islamic's 'promoting' their faith.

YouTube - Sam Harris and concentric circles...



Thanks for posting. I saw that video, and based on my personal experience, I don't agree with him that the extremists form such a large percentage of the Muslim population (maybe more conservatives). It's like the media portrays Trump supporters as uneducated red necks. Some definitely are. Many aren't.

Interesting to note that as they discuss Islam, none of the participants are Muslim. It's like political discussions on CNN when they only have Democrats!

The whole idea that any significant number of Muslims want to take over the Western society is far fetched, and false narrative that was sold to us to support our overseas adventures and the war on terror.

I am telling you that this is a bogeyman, a pure fantasy.
Even as crazy/evil as he was, what OBL really wanted was to get U.S. out of his backyard, and stop the U.S. propping up the Saud family so he could he could have his vision of Islam in Saudi Arabia. His goal was not to expand his vision of the religion overseas.



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