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re: The Mississippi Education Turnaround Continues

Posted on 1/17/20 at 11:39 am to
Posted by anc
Member since Nov 2012
20422 posts
Posted on 1/17/20 at 11:39 am to
quote:

This is big because it’s covering actual gains in the classroom, not a measurement of dollars spent.



I was just about to post this. Mississippi has destroyed that narrative - that's why this isn't being shouted from every media outlet in the country.

Posted by Flats
Member since Jul 2019
26950 posts
Posted on 1/17/20 at 11:45 am to
quote:

She says it’s not money, but an ability to teach disciplined students.


You would think this would be painfully obvious. Kids raised during the depression had a fraction of what today's kids have but we spent less and got more for it. Schools that are allowed to get back to the basics, whether they're charter schools or whatever, get results. Education isn't some magic formula and it didn't get mysterious and unsolvable just because it's 2020.

Posted by BigJim
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2010
14984 posts
Posted on 1/17/20 at 11:48 am to
Interesting, but the real question is what changed?

What new policies, people and/or funding is in place?
Posted by Lima Whiskey
Member since Apr 2013
22594 posts
Posted on 1/17/20 at 11:53 am to
Thank you
Posted by imjustafatkid
Alabama
Member since Dec 2011
63068 posts
Posted on 1/17/20 at 11:56 am to
quote:

So parents are getting more involved or are politicians educating the kids.


Huh?
Posted by anc
Member since Nov 2012
20422 posts
Posted on 1/17/20 at 11:59 am to
quote:

What new policies, people and/or funding is in place?



Covered it more detail in previous posts, but rundown:

1. New state superintendent. Hired from outside MS. Highest paid in nation.
2. A serious look at the problem beyond more money.
3. Realization that reading is really fundamental, not a cliche.
4. Focus on science of reading in early grades. Interventionist (trained in this science by people outside the state) in every building.
5. Third grade reading gate. End of social promotion.
6. Ended elected superintendents, which was killing some districts.
Posted by BigJim
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2010
14984 posts
Posted on 1/17/20 at 12:01 pm to
Posted by yatesdog38
in your head rent free
Member since Sep 2013
12737 posts
Posted on 1/17/20 at 12:12 pm to
The graduation rate is based off of 9th-12th grade it follows those kids. So the elementary school thing might be great but they would not be part of the stats yet unless you are counting 7th graders in 2013 as part of the elementary Ed changes.
Posted by ShortyRob
Member since Oct 2008
82116 posts
Posted on 1/17/20 at 12:14 pm to
quote:

graduation rate


Not passing judgement on the overall OP but grad rate is easily the most irrelevant stat in our public school system.

Posted by Flats
Member since Jul 2019
26950 posts
Posted on 1/17/20 at 12:24 pm to
quote:

Not passing judgement on the overall OP but grad rate is easily the most irrelevant stat in our public school system.


And yet the brain trust at USN&WR and other savants who rank higher education have made it a metric for how they evaluate a "good" university. And just like that, the tail wags the dog and schools now focus on everybody graduating so they can move from 84th place to 83rd place.

We have one of if not the best university systems in the world and it's getting infected by the same garbage that harmed k-12. It's crazy.
Posted by RebelExpress38
In your base, killin your dudes
Member since Apr 2012
14239 posts
Posted on 1/17/20 at 12:40 pm to
You could solve almost every problem with education by incentivizing parents to care about their kids progress. When they have skin in the game the kids will learn. I bet if there was a way to measure and track parents involvement with making their kids do their homework and helping them every night, those kids would all track the same in success rate no matter if they went to the worst public school in the state or the best private school.
Posted by ShortyRob
Member since Oct 2008
82116 posts
Posted on 1/17/20 at 12:51 pm to
quote:

You could solve almost every problem with education by incentivizing parents to care about their kids progress. When they have skin in the game the kids will learn.


Not really.

The fundamental problem we have in our system is that we are forced to pretend that every kid has the same potential.

In a perfect system, if you had 4 groups of kids with intellectual potential rated on a 100 point system of:

90
70
50
30

Your goal would be to absolutely maximize each one to their fullest. But, to do this, you have to track them and then focus on them based upon the capabilities. Ideally, then you can get each kid to very near his 100 point scale number.

But WE can't do that because of demographics. If we do it, we'll get called racist because the demographics won't spread across all 4 categories.

So, we put them all into the same basic one size fits most system. Which, by definition, will tend to result in weaker top end and bottom end results.

Hilariously, this is often viewed as "success" because it often results in the "gap between X and Y groups "closing""

Another who gives a frick metric
Posted by Nawlens Gator
louisiana
Member since Sep 2005
5946 posts
Posted on 1/17/20 at 12:57 pm to

Thanks for posting this thread anc! Best I've seen in a long time.

Posted by volod
Leesville, LA
Member since Jun 2014
5392 posts
Posted on 1/17/20 at 12:59 pm to
quote:

ShortyRob


I know we disagree with most things. But what about vocational high school systems.

Perhaps for 10 to 12th grade we should have alternative education options.
Posted by RebelExpress38
In your base, killin your dudes
Member since Apr 2012
14239 posts
Posted on 1/17/20 at 1:02 pm to
Isn’t that what the Scandinavian countries do? Don’t they kind of determine IQs and then put kids on tracks in middle and upper schools based on their potential? I would be all for that.
Posted by ShortyRob
Member since Oct 2008
82116 posts
Posted on 1/17/20 at 1:04 pm to
quote:

I know we disagree with most things
I honestly have no idea

quote:

But what about vocational high school systems
I support the concept.

quote:

Perhaps for 10 to 12th grade we should have alternative education options.

I wouldn't say "alternative" so much as more tracked. Everyone always hates this idea because "OMG, what if we miss the future Einstein by putting him in the wrong track"...…...but that's silliness. Yeah. It will be a human system so, it would not be 100% accurate.

But, if you track kids, you can then FOCUS on their actual potential.

Kid the type who can roll all the way thru Calculus by 9th grade? Fire him up...…...let him do it.

Kid is kinda bright, but maybe not up to moving at that pace? Fine. Have him in a track that allows him to maybe finish at Pre-Calc

Kid is diligent but not necessarily and intellectual superstar? Fine. Have him in a system that focuses on the MANY skills we need in this world that don't require you to be able to understand quantum mechanics.

And on and on.

The problem is, if you try this, you'll end up with a shite ton of minorities in the supposedly "lower tracks" and everyone will scream racism. This, despite the fact that in such a system, you almost certainly would end up with MASSIVE gains in minority performance and, over time, a leveling of the demographics across the tracks.

But nope. Can't do it. You'll be a racist.

Posted by ShortyRob
Member since Oct 2008
82116 posts
Posted on 1/17/20 at 1:05 pm to
quote:

Isn’t that what the Scandinavian countries do? Don’t they kind of determine IQs and then put kids on tracks in middle and upper schools based on their potential? I would be all for that.


LOTS of countries do variations of this. Because it's just fricking rational. The US used to do it a variation of it!!

But, "OMG racism!!!!"
Posted by boxcar willie
kenner
Member since Mar 2011
16111 posts
Posted on 1/17/20 at 1:24 pm to
probably because they used more "charter schools" and got rid of those socialist government public schools
Posted by anc
Member since Nov 2012
20422 posts
Posted on 1/17/20 at 1:30 pm to
quote:

ShortyRob



Get out of my head!

I've been in education (K-12 and higher) for 20 years. There needs to be a dramatic change in how we prepare students for life after high school.

I think at the end of eighth grade, you divide students into two tracks - academic and workforce.

The academic track has three subtracks -

Track 1 is advanced. Take no prisoners. It's tough. AP classes. Preparation for college beginning in 9th grade. Math ends at Calculus AB/BC.

Track 2 is accelerated. Its advanced, but not as much as Track 1. Students in this track will be well prepared for college by the time they graduate, and will have the opportunity to do dual enrollment classes with the local community college system.

Track 3 is basic academic. These are students that aren't advanced, but want to pursue careers that will require college. Most students here will attend community college.

There can be movement between the tracks.

The workforce track allows incoming ninth graders to pick a CTE field such as allied health, construction, auto mechanics, etc. and students spend a half a day in career-based classes and half a day in basic academic and extracurricular.

Workforce track students can move to the academic track at the end of their 10th or 11th grade year, but must spend 9th and 10th grade in the workforce track. If they graduate in the workforce track, they can either test for certification or gain admission to community college.
This post was edited on 1/17/20 at 1:33 pm
Posted by sodcutterjones
Member since May 2018
1314 posts
Posted on 1/17/20 at 1:36 pm to
quote:

One of the main things we have done in this state is a enhanced focus on teaching reading in elementary schools. In 2013, when we originally looked at why our grad rates sucked and our test scores sucked, we kept hearing from high school teachers that kids couldn't read. So while we have done other things, focusing on "reading as a science" has proven to have the biggest return on investment.


Well then who the hell was passing these kids if they couldn't read??
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