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Message
re: The H1-B visa ban is dumb.
Posted on 6/23/20 at 3:22 pm to Mo Jeaux
Posted on 6/23/20 at 3:22 pm to Mo Jeaux
Mo, while I think we share the same position on the H1B program needing to be abolished or at least adjusted to a higher minimum salary that adjusts with inflation, in the interim, the reality is that being a "big boy and girl" is just silly. The entire regulative state of the U.S. is rigged in favor of big business.
What's unconscionable to me, is not even making an offer to an American worker. Particularly since my personal hiring experience has been that once reality hits these kids on what an entry-level position in the industry actually pays, they accept.
What's unconscionable to me, is not even making an offer to an American worker. Particularly since my personal hiring experience has been that once reality hits these kids on what an entry-level position in the industry actually pays, they accept.
1
Posted on 6/23/20 at 3:23 pm to LSU316
Laughing about your role in suppressing the wages in our region is infuriating, by the way.
I get it though. You’re a small part of a big problem and to survive, you have to play the cheap labor game. It’s not like a small dev shop could change the way things work.
I get it though. You’re a small part of a big problem and to survive, you have to play the cheap labor game. It’s not like a small dev shop could change the way things work.
Posted on 6/23/20 at 3:28 pm to Dawgfanman
quote:
Nah, they could just find an H1B to do it for less..
I pivoted from .NET development management partly because of this.
Posted on 6/23/20 at 3:29 pm to LSU316
quote:
I pivoted from .NET development management partly because of this.
Management not immune to H1B.
Posted on 6/23/20 at 3:30 pm to FieldEngineer
Pretty nice SJW rant there.
I'm wondering where you stand on offshore contingent worker structure....in case you're wondering that's even cheaper than H1-B and is probably where most companies would move if H1-B goes away.
I'm wondering where you stand on offshore contingent worker structure....in case you're wondering that's even cheaper than H1-B and is probably where most companies would move if H1-B goes away.
Posted on 6/23/20 at 3:31 pm to Dawgfanman
quote:
Management not immune to H1B.
It pretty much is currently in my current AOE....certainly could change though.
Posted on 6/23/20 at 3:37 pm to LSU316
quote:
Pretty nice SJW rant there.
I’m far from a SJW. I actually have very little sympathy for people who are unhappy with their situations, but I would love for companies to stop reaping all the benefits of being based in the US while simultaneously fricking American workers.
I do work in tech, and consider myself very well paid, for what it’s worth.
quote:
I'm wondering where you stand on offshore contingent worker structure....in case you're wondering that's even cheaper than H1-B and is probably where most companies would move if H1-B goes away.
I’m not familiar with it. Does it seem like another way billion dollar companies can frick American workers?
Posted on 6/23/20 at 3:42 pm to FieldEngineer
quote:
Does it seem like another way billion dollar companies can frick American workers?
Sure....I pay a company like Infosys 45k/yr to do the job that is typically hired at 60-65K in America....Infosys then farms it out to a contractor sitting in Bangladesh that gets paid who knows what because Infosys won't tell you that part.
All legal and no visa or other immigration docs required.
ETA The guy in Bangladesh interacts with your company just like any other employee other than the fact that his pay check doesn't come from your company it comes from Infosys.
That really screws America in general in forms of tax dollars....at least H1-B workers are spending their money in America.
This post was edited on 6/23/20 at 3:44 pm
Posted on 6/23/20 at 3:42 pm to agregime1
frick off. America First.
Posted on 6/23/20 at 3:46 pm to LSU316
quote:
Sure....I pay a company like Infosys 45k/yr to do the job that is typically hired at 60-65K in America....Infosys then farms it out to a contractor sitting in Bangladesh that gets paid who knows what because Infosys won't tell you that part.
All legal and no visa or other immigration docs required.
I don't have a specific problem with outsourcing, though I'm not a fan of it. If enough companies do that, it will increase the cost of the service in India and similar countries (already has, I think). There is also a noticeable different in average quality of service in those offshoring scenarios too.
Posted on 6/23/20 at 3:48 pm to LSU316
To reply to your edit...
It's not the same at all.
They also consume services which cost tax dollars to provide.
quote:
ETA The guy in Bangladesh interacts with your company just like any other employee other than the fact that his pay check doesn't come from your company it comes from Infosys.
It's not the same at all.
quote:
That really screws America in general in forms of tax dollars....at least H1-B workers are spending their money in America.
They also consume services which cost tax dollars to provide.
Posted on 6/23/20 at 3:50 pm to FieldEngineer
It’s not dumb...it’s strategic. This is a direct attack on Big Tech and censorship. They likely planned to have a big ramp up of workers for election time working on censoring the billions of posts/tweets/memes/etc. that takes a ton of man power....and this has to be done domestically. Google cannot have their overseas operations in charge of this.
Posted on 6/23/20 at 3:58 pm to FieldEngineer
quote:
I don't have a specific problem with outsourcing, though I'm not a fan of it. If enough companies do that, it will increase the cost of the service in India and similar countries (already has, I think).
I've not seen this....and the company I work for just hired one at a fraction of the cost of a regular employee
quote:
There is also a noticeable different in average quality of service in those offshoring scenarios too.
This is changing because it is getting so competitive at least in some AOEs.
quote:
It's not the same at all.
How so. The (let's call them a contractor for ease of use) contractor sits in the organization under a manager that also contains other regular employees. He gets his assignments the same way (certainly now with COVID) and it evaluated based on the same criteria.
quote:
They also consume services which cost tax dollars to provide.
Right but as much tax dollars as they consume the company pays that much in benefits and other costs that go back into the general economy. This is not the case on a contractor.
The bottom line here (and a lot of companies are starting to see it I think) the contingent worker route is the real route to go to save money over regular employees.
Disney replaced a lot of their employees with offshore resources in IT not that long ago.....same story for Amedisys, a big home health firm, in Baton Rouge.
Posted on 6/23/20 at 4:15 pm to LSU316
quote:
I've not seen this....and the company I work for just hired one at a fraction of the cost of a regular employee
Could be different for me. I'm not a developer.
quote:
How so. The (let's call them a contractor for ease of use) contractor sits in the organization under a manager that also contains other regular employees. He gets his assignments the same way (certainly now with COVID) and it evaluated based on the same criteria.
COVID closures certainly leveled the playing field a bit, even if only temporarily.
The first major difference in that type of worker is the location. That makes networking and team building infinitely more difficult.
The next big one is time zone. Scheduling calls and meetings and such is difficult unless the person in India works US hours. (Sometimes it can be advantageous for them to be working while the US folks are sleeping though.)
quote:
Right but as much tax dollars as they consume the company pays that much in benefits and other costs that go back into the general economy. This is not the case on a contractor.
The bottom line here (and a lot of companies are starting to see it I think) the contingent worker route is the real route to go to save money over regular employees.
Disney replaced a lot of their employees with offshore resources in IT not that long ago.....same story for Amedisys, a big home health firm, in Baton Rouge.
Edited: Probably shouldn't post specific stuff.
This post was edited on 6/23/20 at 4:17 pm
Posted on 6/23/20 at 4:16 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
Dumbass those Americans aren’t competing with people that get H!-B visas,
quote:You're wrong.
I refuse to believe blue collar young people from the Midwest and New England can’t learn tech skills and fill these jobs
H1-B visas are only available for jobs in a specialty occupation.
quote:In addition, the employer must also file a "Labor Condition Application" which documents the employer's required attempts to first hire United States workers for the jobs being filled.
"A specialty occupation is one that requires the application of a body of highly specialized knowledge and the attainment of at least a bachelor's degree or its equivalent."
What is hard to believe is how this is anything more than a campaign-inspired move by Trump.
Posted on 6/23/20 at 4:23 pm to agregime1
You are the dumbass
Posted on 6/23/20 at 4:26 pm to Snazzmeister
quote:
Mo, while I think we share the same position on the H1B program needing to be abolished or at least adjusted to a higher minimum salary that adjusts with inflation, in the interim, the reality is that being a "big boy and girl" is just silly. The entire regulative state of the U.S. is rigged in favor of big business.
I agree with you. I was using some hyperbole.
Posted on 6/23/20 at 4:27 pm to texridder
quote:
In addition, the employer must also file a "Labor Condition Application" which documents the employer's required attempts to first hire United States workers for the jobs being filled.
A perfunctory ministerial step. 
Posted on 6/23/20 at 4:27 pm to texridder
quote:
H1-B visas are only available for jobs in a specialty occupation.
These are jobs that can and should be given to Americans instead. The sole purpose of H1-B visas is to allow companies to import cheaper labor and suppress American wages.
quote:
In addition, the employer must also file a "Labor Condition Application" which documents the employer's required attempts to first hire United States workers for the jobs being filled.
LSU316 has already described how he gets around this.
Posted on 6/23/20 at 4:37 pm to agregime1
I always get a kick out of the opponents of this. Imagine being a company trying to produce something and the federal gov't won't allow you to buy the best materials at the best price to make whatever you're making. That's exactly what the gov't is doing here effectively creating tariffs on labor which, of course, is a tax on consumers.
Can you imagine such a restriction on your favorite college football team? What if LSU or Bama were suddenly restricted to only players from those states? The quality of the product they produced would drop dramatically.
Free markets are free from gov't impediments which includes labor.
Can you imagine such a restriction on your favorite college football team? What if LSU or Bama were suddenly restricted to only players from those states? The quality of the product they produced would drop dramatically.
Free markets are free from gov't impediments which includes labor.
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