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re: The GOP wants to add $3T to the debt

Posted on 2/13/25 at 12:03 pm to
Posted by Bass Tiger
Member since Oct 2014
51265 posts
Posted on 2/13/25 at 12:03 pm to
There is a good chance Johnson pushes a CR for the same spending that was proposed by the illegitimate regime. The OMB has estimated the current level of spending will result in a $2 trillion deficit in 2025 and that deficit will continue to increase each year.....no wonder the republicans want to increase the debt ceiling by $4 trillion.
Posted by imjustafatkid
Alabama
Member since Dec 2011
57858 posts
Posted on 2/13/25 at 12:04 pm to
quote:

$4.5T in tax cuts, $1.5T spending cuts.

Why TF does no one want balanced budget???

How about $1.5T in tax cuts and $4.5T in spending cuts?


I'm sure this has already been pointed out, but Trump's previous tax cuts resulted in higher tax collections for the government.
Posted by Jimbeaux
Member since Sep 2003
20826 posts
Posted on 2/13/25 at 12:07 pm to
quote:

But it didn't. Please show me the data where government revenue increased because of the Regan and Trump tax cuts. It simply isn't true. I'm all for paying less in taxes, but it has to come with a massive, massive reduction in spending.


Have you actually looked?

There’s a good comprehensive chart in this link.
LINK

Reagan was president from 1981 to 1989. Top income tax went from 70% to 50% in 1981.

We had a major economic recession in 1982 mostly due to the oil bust.

The top rate was reduced again in 1987 to 38.5% and then again in 1988 to 28%

Here are the Tax revenues per year:

1979 - $463 B
1980 - $517 B
1981 - $599 B
1982 - $617 B
1983 - $600 B (recession year returns)
1984 - $666 B
1985 - $734 B
1986 - $769 B
1987 - $854 B
1988 - $909 B
1989 - $991 B

Now, these are not inflation adjusted numbers, but Reagan drastically cut tax rates, and tax revenues greatly increased while he was president, while the citizens enjoyed a higher standard of living with much lower taxes.
Posted by Jimbeaux
Member since Sep 2003
20826 posts
Posted on 2/13/25 at 12:08 pm to
quote:

Elon wants to cut over 1 trillion a year. That is over 10 trillion over 10 years.


Tax rate cuts do not equal tax revenue reductions. How many times must this be said.
Posted by Boss
Member since Dec 2007
1620 posts
Posted on 2/13/25 at 12:09 pm to
quote:

It is proven that tax cuts increase revenues.


Show me the proof
Posted by TigerSprings
Southeast LA
Member since Jan 2019
2279 posts
Posted on 2/13/25 at 12:10 pm to
quote:

You do realize that the information you posted doesn’t support your argument. It shows decreased tax revenue due to tax cuts and points that out in the article.


Reagan
FY 1989 $991.1 billion
FY1988 $909.2 billion
FY 1987 $854.3 billion
FY 1986 $769.2 billion
FY 1985 $734.0 billion
FY 1984 $666.4 billion
FY 1983 $600.6 billion
FY 1982 $617.8 billion

Trump
FY 2021 $4.05 trillion
FY 2020 $3.42 trillion
FY 2019 $3.46 trillion
FY 2018 $3.33 trillion
FY 2017 $3.32 trillion
FY 2016 $3.27 trillion


Here is the data, conclude what you will.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
281843 posts
Posted on 2/13/25 at 12:10 pm to
quote:

It is proven that tax cuts increase revenues.


They can.

But if combined with more spending, its nothing more than a quick stimulus, then it loses effectiveness.

Posted by Marciano1
Marksville, LA
Member since Jun 2009
19327 posts
Posted on 2/13/25 at 12:11 pm to
quote:


$4.5T in tax cuts, $1.5T spending cuts.

Why TF does no one want balanced budget???

How about $1.5T in tax cuts and $4.5T in spending cuts?
Why not 4.5T cuts in both taxes and spending?
Posted by SDVTiger
Cabo San Lucas
Member since Nov 2011
87092 posts
Posted on 2/13/25 at 12:11 pm to
quote:

RogerTheShrubber


Posted by udtiger
Over your left shoulder
Member since Nov 2006
107737 posts
Posted on 2/13/25 at 12:12 pm to
quote:

But if combined with more spending, its nothing more than a quick stimulus, then it loses effectiveness.


Wholeheartedly agree. Cut taxes AND spending (and real cuts, not just reductions in increases).
Posted by RohanGonzales
Member since Apr 2024
4722 posts
Posted on 2/13/25 at 12:21 pm to
quote:

Here is the data, conclude what you will.


I saw the same numbers, with the explanation that COVID drove 2020 and the Trump tax cuts caused a decline in 2023

FY 2023 $4.44 trillion
FY 2022 $4.90 trillion
FY 2021 $4.05 trillion
FY 2020 $3.42 trillion
FY 2019 $3.46 trillion

That is complete bullshite. Some of 2020-2022 was shuffled between those 3 years, otherwise it went straight up.

Leftists are too fricking stupid to do second and third order analysis on how BEHAVIORS are driven by tax law, even though the biggest power of Congress is to DRIVE BEHAVIOR with the tax code. That is the ONLY reason we don't have a lot simpler tax code.
Posted by Jimbeaux
Member since Sep 2003
20826 posts
Posted on 2/13/25 at 12:23 pm to
quote:

Here is the data, conclude what you will.


It seems to prove the point that lowering tax rates don’t have a direct correlation to tax revenue, but are influenced by the Laffer Curve.

It also shows that besides a major economic recession (1982) and an induced COVID recession (2020), tax revenue continues to climb year over year despite a lower tax rate, which means more money in citizens pockets and not government pockets.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
450812 posts
Posted on 2/13/25 at 12:24 pm to
There is a theoretical connection that I do believe exists in reality between tax cuts and some economic growth, but the problem is tax receipts will only be about 20% of GDP. There will also be an inflection point where the amount of cuts stop leading to this increase. We can't grow our GDP enough to overcome our spending and we have a minimum amount that we can cut taxes before it stops helping the deficit issues.
Posted by Boss
Member since Dec 2007
1620 posts
Posted on 2/13/25 at 12:29 pm to
Hey Jimbeaux, After Reagan's tax cuts, he then implemented all of these:

The 1980s tax increases are less well-known, in part because they didn't involve increases in individual income tax rates. The biggest, the Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982, increased revenue mainly by tightening up rules on depreciation, leasing, contract accounting and investment tax credits. The Social Security Amendments of 1983 sped up planned increases in payroll tax rates, among other things. The Deficit Reduction Act of 1984 changed rules on interest exclusions, income averaging and such. The Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1987 closed a few loopholes and extended a telephone excise tax.


I mean any guy with basic economic sense will understand that cutting a revenue source for the federal government will not result in an increase in revenue. Look I am all for paying less taxes. My federal tax bill was 6 digits. It sucks. But doing so without massively reducing federal government will only increase deficit spending.

So say my taxes get cut in half. How is that money and then some going to get back to the federal government? The bottom line is it isn't.
Posted by oklahogjr
Gold Membership
Member since Jan 2010
39409 posts
Posted on 2/13/25 at 12:33 pm to
quote:

I'm sure this has already been pointed out, but Trump's previous tax cuts resulted in higher tax collections for the government.

And a larger deficit than prior to his term. Deficit spending is deficit spending.


Posted by McChowder
Hammond
Member since Dec 2006
5593 posts
Posted on 2/13/25 at 12:34 pm to
What happened to tax revenue after Trump passed sweeping tax cuts in his first term? Did tax revenue decrease or did it increase? Then ask yourself why?

quote:

under Trump tax policies in 2022, tax revenues reached a record high of nearly $5 trillion, and revenues averaged $205 billion above CBO predictions for the four years following implementation of the law.


budget.house.gov link
Posted by LSUnKaty
Katy, TX
Member since Dec 2008
4615 posts
Posted on 2/13/25 at 12:42 pm to
quote:

$4.5T in tax cuts, $1.5T spending cuts.
Wow! Really.

The American people are going to get a 91% tax break?

They only collected 4.92T in 2024.
Posted by Tarps99
Lafourche Parish
Member since Apr 2017
9802 posts
Posted on 2/13/25 at 12:42 pm to
quote:

$4.5T in tax cuts,


How much is new Tax Cuts?

The game Washington plays is that Trump Tax Cuts expire after this year so the government reverts to the old rates and now passes a cut that was already on the books as a new cut even though it is same. And the other smoke screen they use is a total number over x years in stead of just one year.
This post was edited on 2/13/25 at 12:44 pm
Posted by Thundercles
Mars
Member since Sep 2010
6032 posts
Posted on 2/13/25 at 12:45 pm to
quote:

Whoever cut a check for 30% of our 2024 tax revenue to go to cover that debt didnt think it was imaginary fairy dust.


I see the point you're making but considering it was a federal employee who doesn't give a frick about how much of your money they're giving away, they likely do see it as fairy dust.
Posted by imjustafatkid
Alabama
Member since Dec 2011
57858 posts
Posted on 2/13/25 at 12:45 pm to
quote:

And a larger deficit than prior to his term. Deficit spending is deficit spending.


His tax cuts did not lead to larger deficit spending. They resulted in higher collections, which means the deficit spending would have been even higher without the cuts.

This honestly isn't even a difficult concept to grasp, but somehow you didn't.
This post was edited on 2/13/25 at 12:46 pm
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