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Message
3
Posted on 7/13/17 at 3:03 pm to cahoots
quote:
Unemployment benefits
Medical subsidies for children with rare and costly afflictions
Medicare and social security for the elderly
i'll give you the bolded one
certainly won't give you medicare or SS
Posted on 7/13/17 at 3:03 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
Medicare and social security are not "sociaism",
oh yes they are. they are welfare programs
if they weren't, then we could stop paying into it today and those who contributed would be at no risk of losing their benefits
Posted on 7/13/17 at 3:04 pm to upgrayedd
Posted on 7/13/17 at 3:05 pm to HempHead
The only way things work well is with homogeny. Fact of the matter is things only work very well for an extended time when they are alike.
Posted on 7/13/17 at 3:05 pm to SlowFlowPro
We really need to decouple the word 'socialism' from things that are actually 'social welfare'. No one is organizing the means of production along collective lines, it's just wealth transferral. Both are shitty, of course, but in order to make a good point, we have to use more exacting terminology. It's kind of the same shite as SJWs crying "racism!" or "fascism!" all the time.
Posted on 7/13/17 at 3:07 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
if they weren't, then we could stop paying into it today and those who contributed would be at no risk of losing their benefits
What?
OK, John is 64. He's been paying into SS all his life by force of law. You end SS taxes today. How is John's benefits not lost?
Edit: I think I see your distinction. SS is a from of socialism but it's not welfare. SS is money stolen from you and a portion returned. Welfare is money stolen from someone else and given to you when you have contributed nothing other than existing.
This post was edited on 7/13/17 at 3:12 pm
Posted on 7/13/17 at 3:07 pm to tigerinDC09
Libertarianism is NOT a "run government like a business".
Posted on 7/13/17 at 3:07 pm to HempHead
i do somewhat agree
what are the main groupings/pillars?
1. socialism - government-run industries (#1 will always be the military/police)
2. regulation - government controls on private behaviors (can be economic or social)
3. redistribution - welfare, Medicaid, et al
what are the main groupings/pillars?
1. socialism - government-run industries (#1 will always be the military/police)
2. regulation - government controls on private behaviors (can be economic or social)
3. redistribution - welfare, Medicaid, et al
Posted on 7/13/17 at 3:08 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
Medicare and social security are not "sociaism", especially social security.
They are single payer social welfare programs. A lot of people take out a lot more than they put in. You can call it whatever you want.
Posted on 7/13/17 at 3:08 pm to Zach
quote:
OK, John is 64. He's been paying into SS all his life by force of law. You end SS taxes today. How is John's benefits not lost?
John is 64. he relies on Section 8. you end Section 8 today, and how are his benefits lost?
same concept
the most creative way the government tricked people with Medicare/SS is calling their taxes "contributions"
Posted on 7/13/17 at 3:08 pm to Zach
quote:
OK, John is 64. He's been paying into SS all his life by force of law. You end SS taxes today. How is John's benefits not lost?
He is saying that if they weren't welfare programs, contributions could be ended with no risk to benefits. Clearly, if we stopped paying SS taxes, then you old fricks wouldn't get a dime, because it's just a ponzi scheme.
Posted on 7/13/17 at 3:09 pm to HempHead
quote:
Clearly, if we stopped paying SS taxes, then you old fricks wouldn't get a dime, because it's just a ponzi scheme.
and the "contributions" made over time didn't accumulate in any fashion and were just taxes like any other taxes (wherein if you end the program, your previously-paid taxes amount to nothing moving forward)
Posted on 7/13/17 at 3:11 pm to cahoots
But benefits are capped
Posted on 7/13/17 at 3:13 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
But benefits are capped
so are welfare payments, Section 8 vouchers, etc
*ETA: Medicare isn't capped, for all intents and purposes (like Medicaid)
This post was edited on 7/13/17 at 3:15 pm
Posted on 7/13/17 at 3:14 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
the most creative way the government tricked people with Medicare/SS is calling their taxes "contributions"
I disagree. The govt trick was that they sold SS as taking your money and putting it in a box with your name on it because you didn't have the discipline to save it yourself. And then you get that same money back.
Posted on 7/13/17 at 3:14 pm to Zach
quote:
The govt trick was that they sold SS as taking your money and putting it in a box with your name on it because you didn't have the discipline to save it yourself.
well we're kind of making the same point just slightly differently
Posted on 7/13/17 at 3:22 pm to SlowFlowPro
Yeah the point is that SS and Medicare redistribute wealth. Some people come out ahead, some even, and some behind. It's not a government savings account.
Posted on 7/13/17 at 3:23 pm to cahoots
quote:
Yeah the point is that SS and Medicare redistribute wealth. Some people come out ahead, some even, and some behind. It's not a government savings account.
oh yeah it's 100% wealth redistribution
i think my generation is going to realize this too late (when we won't receive shite)
you can usually tell who promotes the "contributions" line based on age
Posted on 7/13/17 at 4:11 pm to HempHead
quote:
. I'm not sure that any kind of absolutism is possible, except after balkanization
Well then let's get this party started, fam.
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