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The Danger and Power of the Sexual Offender Registry

Posted on 2/14/17 at 3:47 pm
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
481186 posts
Posted on 2/14/17 at 3:47 pm
look i understand that a registry can do good things to try to combat actual sexual predators, especially giving awareness to areas with children about a person with a history of abusing children (given the recidivism rate within that demographic). however, this has become one of the most powerful and monstrous tools of the modern LEO/CJ industry

Good example from Reason

quote:

Zachary, now 19, is in jail awaiting sentencing for five pictures his teenage girlfriend sent him of herself in her underwear. He faced a choice between a possible (though unlikely) maximum sentence of 350 years in prison, or lifetime on the sex offender registry as a "sexually violent offender"—even though he never met the girl in person. Here's what happened.


quote:

Eventually Zachary and the dragon-lover struck up a online friendship, which developed into a online romance. By the summer, a month after Zachary turned 18, the girl sent him five pictures of herself in her underwear. Her face was not visible, nor were her private parts.


quote:

Even so, Zachary was arrested and charged with 20 felonies, including indecent liberties with a minor, using a computer to propose sex, and "child porn reproduce/transmit/sell," even though he did not send or sell the pictures to anyone. All this, from five underwear pictures. If convicted, Zachary's father told me, he faced a theoretically possible maximum sentence of 350 years.


quote:

The family hired two psychologists to evaluate Zachary. (Those evaluations were also obtained by Reason.) One psychologist, Mike Fray, found him to be "not a physical threat to this girl or to any other young girls." The other, Evan S. Nelson, summed up this case and what is wrong with all the cases Zachary's story represents:

quote:

This psychologist cannot count the number of adolescent sex offenders I have met who have a sense that what they are doing is 'wrong' but were ignorant that their conduct was criminal, let alone a felony, or actions which could put them on the Sex Offender Registry. In the teenage digital social world, if both parties want to talk about sex, that seems like 'consent' to them. Ignorance does not excuse this conduct, but it does help to explain why he did this, and to the degree that ignorance was an underlying cause of his crime, this problem can be easily fixed with education.



while i'm not going to say that an 18 year old finding a romantic link with a 13 year old is ordinary or should be permitted socially, we have a case of a person evaluated by multiple psychologists who all assessed him with no signs of being a sexual predator or other related issues.

he's a socially awkward 18 year old virgin who received non-nude photographs of a minor (while almost being a minor himself). the 13 year old didn't want him prosecuted (i don't know if it's clear about what her family wanted, but we can assume they did). he's been in jail for a long time and will likely serve more time, and will basically be a social outcast for the remainder of his life. he'll never be allowed to continue his education, get a decent job, or even live in many areas of the country.

what does our society gain by this punishment of this individual? serious question
Posted by The Boat
Member since Oct 2008
178325 posts
Posted on 2/14/17 at 3:49 pm to
While this 18-13 scenario is a little odd I've always found it odd 16 or 17 year olds can legally have sex but they can't send pictures to their partner without possibly facing legal issues.
Posted by AggieDub14
Oil Baron
Member since Oct 2015
15180 posts
Posted on 2/14/17 at 3:49 pm to
If he is being charged with all those felonies, she should be charged with the creation of child pornography. The whole thing is ridiculous. He shouldn't be talking to a 13 year old he doesn't know online. Maybe charge him with a minor offense for that, but no felonies.
Posted by LSUTigersVCURams
Member since Jul 2014
21940 posts
Posted on 2/14/17 at 3:51 pm to
Only way there will ever be any change in this department is through the federal courts. No politician will ever risk being labelled "soft on pedos and child pornographers" in his reelection campaign to ever think about reforming it through legislation.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
481186 posts
Posted on 2/14/17 at 3:52 pm to
quote:

While this 18-13 scenario is a little odd I've always found it odd 16 or 17 year olds can legally have sex but they can't send pictures to their partner without possibly facing legal issues.

yeah i give talks to high school kids about these issues

17 year old couples can have sex and see each other naked, but if they take/send a nude? serious felony crime
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
481186 posts
Posted on 2/14/17 at 3:53 pm to
quote:

Only way there will ever be any change in this department is through the federal courts. No politician will ever risk being labelled "soft on pedos and child pornographers" in his reelection campaign to ever think about reforming it through legislation.

having this discussion in person is almost impossible b/c they immediately suspect you're a pedo or CP fan
Posted by Lakeboy7
New Orleans
Member since Jul 2011
28324 posts
Posted on 2/14/17 at 3:54 pm to
quote:

what does our society gain by this punishment of this individual? serious question



Nothing.

I'm all for a private registry and public notification when necessary for sexual offenders, but you are essentially damning these people to a life of poverty the way the registry works now.
Posted by Salmon
I helped draft the email
Member since Feb 2008
86686 posts
Posted on 2/14/17 at 3:54 pm to
are most of these scenarios caused because our technology has passed up our laws (interpretations), but considering the sensitivity of the actual real crimes, nobody will go after the laws and rewrite them?
Posted by Hugo Stiglitz
Member since Oct 2010
72937 posts
Posted on 2/14/17 at 3:55 pm to
quote:

what does our society gain by this punishment of this individual? serious question

Nothing.

But you will likely not find a lawmaker willing to 'go soft' on sex offenders regardless of circumstances.

The contrary is more likely as cracking down on sex offenders is low hanging fruit for a politician.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
481186 posts
Posted on 2/14/17 at 3:56 pm to
quote:

but you are essentially damning these people to a life of poverty the way the registry works now.

that raises its own issues with legit sexual offenders (how can we ever expect them to adapt to society if they're so shunned). however when dealing with these "sexting" scenarios, those concerns ramp up 10000000%

we're talking about extraordinarily punishing teens for wanting to see other teens naked. the horror
Posted by Decatur
Member since Mar 2007
33051 posts
Posted on 2/14/17 at 3:56 pm to
I hear you on this.

Problem is which politician wants to be known as the guy or gal that "weakens" sex offender laws when they try to provide a fix.
Posted by Lakeboy7
New Orleans
Member since Jul 2011
28324 posts
Posted on 2/14/17 at 3:57 pm to
quote:

are most of these scenarios caused because our technology has passed up our laws (interpretations), but considering the sensitivity of the actual real crimes, nobody will go after the laws and rewrite them?




Exactly
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
481186 posts
Posted on 2/14/17 at 3:57 pm to
quote:

are most of these scenarios caused because our technology has passed up our laws (interpretations), but considering the sensitivity of the actual real crimes, nobody will go after the laws and rewrite them?

it's kind of technology but more the fact that new technology has changed culture and the laws can't/won't keep up. criminal law is typically very black/white and the system does not want to add in grey, esp when you're dealing with possibly giving defenses to legit predators
Posted by HubbaBubba
North of DFW, TX
Member since Oct 2010
52630 posts
Posted on 2/14/17 at 4:00 pm to
quote:


what does our society gain by this punishment of this individual?
Seems pretty Draconian, and I can remember when I was 18 and a young 13 year old named Viv (who was well developed for her age and the little sister of a friend), basically offered me whatever I wanted. I was smart enough to walk away, but I can say for a certainty that there are guys that wouldn't have walked away. I know one that got a 15 year old pregnant and he quit college to marry the little tramp to avoid charges her daddy threatened. This stuff should not be a life sentence and this kid should never have been charged.
This post was edited on 2/14/17 at 4:03 pm
Posted by imjustafatkid
Alabama
Member since Dec 2011
67616 posts
Posted on 2/14/17 at 4:03 pm to
quote:

As part of the plea, Zachary also agreed never to appeal. He will be sentenced on March 9. Until then, he remains in jail.


Sentencing isn't until March 9? Can't he rescind the deal and go to trial?
Posted by navy
Parts Unknown, LA
Member since Sep 2010
32529 posts
Posted on 2/14/17 at 4:05 pm to
quote:

what does our society gain by this punishment of this individual? serious question





Teaches people still developing common sense that if you play stupid fricking games, you win stupid fricking prizes.
Posted by imjustafatkid
Alabama
Member since Dec 2011
67616 posts
Posted on 2/14/17 at 4:06 pm to
quote:

Teaches people still developing common sense that if you play stupid fricking games, you win stupid fricking prizes.



There's a way to do this without cruel and unusual punishment.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
481186 posts
Posted on 2/14/17 at 4:07 pm to
quote:

that if you play stupid fricking games, you win stupid fricking prizes.

it's really not that stupid of a game, though

and the system's response is insane and non-equitable
Posted by HubbaBubba
North of DFW, TX
Member since Oct 2010
52630 posts
Posted on 2/14/17 at 4:09 pm to
quote:

As part of the plea, Zachary also agreed never to appeal.
Can a person sign away their constitutional rights?
Posted by CorporateTiger
Member since Aug 2014
10700 posts
Posted on 2/14/17 at 4:11 pm to
That stipulation is standard for plea bargains. There are some limited exceptions, but generally you can't appeal a plea bargain you agreed to take.

And more generally, you can always waive your rights. That includes right to trial by jury, right to privacy, right to freedom of speech, etc.
This post was edited on 2/14/17 at 4:12 pm
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