re: The Crusades were justified

IMO, being that Islam is centered in the ME, it will be Israel that ends Islamist hegemony once and for all. The Good Book speaks of "blood up to the bridle of a horse" in the 'end time' and the Second Coming "in the clouds" (nuclear most likely). Islam assumes that their conquering and World unifying Madhi will come in the same calamitous scenario.

The ME and their Allies are all lining up per the whole World being against the Jews, who vow "never again", and they will most certainly cut loose with what is likely a very powerful nuclear capacity to wreak total havoc on Islam, when threatened with annihilation. To what degree the Jews would hit the Islamist Allies (China, Russia, NK, etc.) remains to be seen.

I don't see how either Trump or even Jesus stops this runaway train. It's prophesied destiny. Trump sure can't and Jesus won't, as Humanity has one more big lesson to learn before moving up to that long hoped for Utopian "Kingdom of Heaven on Earth". Such being that a well-intentioned by seriously flawed (vulnerable to Evil) Humanity cannot handle great power without the Good Lord's leadership.

The OP is right. As is the coming 'crusade'. "All things happen for the good of them that LOVE God. Love being key.

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Let's compare bibliographies you shithead. Give me the specifics or shut up.

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Give me some sources. My source is Porter Berkey

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Dude....That's your "bibliography"?



You really are stupid.

So here are some of my sources, and better sourced than your remedial "My source is Porter Berkey" (I'm assuming your source is his book Formation of Islam, but you left that out, he also goes by Jonathan Berkey mostly)


Muhammad Abu’l-Qasim Ibn Hawqal, Surat al-Ard

Robert Schick, The Christian Communities of Palestine From Byzantine to Islamic Rule: A Historical and Archaeological Study

J. Spencer Trimingham, Christianity among the Arabs in Pre-Islamic Times

Susan Atchison-Day, The Expansion of Christianity in the Pre-Islamic Middle East: from Edessa to 'Uman

Irfan Shahid, Byzantium in South Arabia

Colin Chapman, Christians in the Middle East – Past, Present and Future

I've removed page numbers, because you're an arsehole who needs to read the entirety of all these works. Have fun

/goodbye

Of course they were. This was a red pill in like 2003

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Everyone likes to throw shade on Christians for fighting the Crusades. They're treated as blood thirsty monsters attacking innocent Muslims. If you look at the history, nothing could be further from the truth. Take for insance the following facts. The Dark Ages in Europe coincided with the Islamic invasions of the Middle East, North Africa, and Europe. Europe was constantly under attack from Muslim armies and cut off from most of the world. Prior to this, the Middle East and Northern Africa had a majority Christian population. Muslims had conquered all of Iberia, including capturing Barcelona, enslaving women and children. Mohamed approved taking slaves and muslims followed his example in the regions they conquered. As a side note, the is why slavery is common in the muslim world and continues to be so today. Islamic piracy destroyed much of Mediterranean trade that the Christian Romans had created. By the 9th century, the struggle between Byzantines and Arabs had turned the eastern Mediterranean into a no man’s land for merchant activity. Within 35 years, Islamic Turks and seized control of Christian territories in Anatolia, larger than the entire region of Germany and threatened France & Italy. In response to the muslim invasion, Pope Urban II gave a speech that united an international group that included French, Flemish, English & German peasants, knights, and kings who all came together to defend and take back the lands that had been taken. This was something unique in human history. The Catholic church had created a multinational network that united Europeans of all stripes and ethnicities under a common faith with common goals. While not every Crusade was a success, consider the logistics of European armies traveling thousands of miles to fight unfamiliar enemies on their own homeland. The Reconquista and First Crusade were roaring success defeating every muslim army they faced. Europe remained Christian for centuries and the muslims were driven out. So many Europeans being united by on religion and engaging in a civilization wide fight had not happened before and has not happened since. The Crusades achieved what other religions and ideologies could not. Perhaps this is why our modern secular system demonizes the Crusades.

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The dark ages in Europe was also due to ignorance. Islam rose because it was a very open to sciences and arts. The scientific advances they made in math and chemistry are crucial to our civilization but once Ghengis Khan laid waist to the Middle East that ended. Turks essentially militarized the religion to seize control. Arabs got rich of being traders of Europe to asia. Europe took the advances they made and evolved to the civilization we have today. While the Middle East essentially forgot the beginnings of the early days and have been locked in tribal warfare. They got extremely lucky with having oil otherwise they’d be living in huts still.

Pre-crusades but the reconquista is something to keep in mind as it was Christian Kingdoms and people under Islamic control -- to me it was the kick off of the crusades:

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Pelagius (Pelayo) is credited with initiating the Reconquista, the Christian reconquest of the Iberian Peninsula from the Moors, and establishing the Asturian monarchy, making him the forefather of all the future Iberian monarchies, including the Kings of Castile, the Kings of León, and the Kings of Portugal.

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Look at the tiny part of Iberia that was not controlled:

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The Crusades were justified

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Most yes. But there were a few issues. But the concept overall of ousting the war-mongering Arabs of the time was pretty spot on.

One of the most egregious misconceptions in history, because it is used so often to condemn Christians. Retaking Jerusalem was the Christian pursuit, but there are non-religious aspects to not letting another culture take over large swaths of land forcibly.

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The Battle of Vienna[a] took place at Kahlenberg Mountain near Vienna on 12 September 1683[3] after the city had been besieged by the Ottoman Empire for two months. The battle was fought by the Holy Roman Empire (led by the Habsburg monarchy) and the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth, both under the command of King John III Sobieski, against the Ottomans and their vassal and tributary states.

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Muhammad Abu’l-Qasim Ibn Hawqal, Surat al-Ard

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Lol do you read Latin?

And my reference to Berkey was specifically about one point, which you appear to have missed in your rush to call me stupid. Seems like you should learn how to make an argument before you start spouting things for which you barely have any proficiency.

For conversions in Spain, we can go to Thomas Glick's Islamic and Christian Spain in the Early Middle Ages as well as Robert Bulliet's Conversion to Islam in the Medieval Period, which is a really provocative paper. One work in which I think the paper is collected is Indigenous Christian Communities in Islamic Lands Eight to Eighteenth Centuries. We can also go to AS Tritton's The Caliphs and their Non-Muslim Subjects for the full view of how Islamic rulers approached their non-Muslim subjects.

With respect to the evolution of Islamic polities, you should go to Patricia Crone's Slaves on Horses: The Evolution of Islamic Polity. Another great book about trade interactions in Medieval Spain is Remi Constable's work.

So if I understand your claim, the sum of your bibliography will lead to the conclusion that 70% of pre-Islamic Arabia was Christian? Because given the really odd choices of your bibliography, with very few references to the more common works, you are missing a massive bibliography about Christendom before and under Islam, including Christopher MacEvit, Bernard Hamilton, Robert Irwin, and many many others.

Kingdom of Heaven was told with a Muslim slant.

Gotta love wars being fought over who’s imaginary friend is more real.