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The Crusades were justified

Posted on 2/4/24 at 7:45 am
Posted by Rex Feral
Member since Jan 2014
14600 posts
Posted on 2/4/24 at 7:45 am
Everyone likes to throw shade on Christians for fighting the Crusades. They're treated as blood thirsty monsters attacking innocent Muslims. If you look at the history, nothing could be further from the truth. Take for insance the following facts.

The Dark Ages in Europe coincided with the Islamic invasions of the Middle East, North Africa, and Europe. Europe was constantly under attack from Muslim armies and cut off from most of the world.

Prior to this, the Middle East and Northern Africa had a majority Christian population.

Muslims had conquered all of Iberia, including capturing Barcelona, enslaving women and children. Mohamed approved taking slaves and muslims followed his example in the regions they conquered. As a side note, the is why slavery is common in the muslim world and continues to be so today.

Islamic piracy destroyed much of Mediterranean trade that the Christian Romans had created. By the 9th century, the struggle between Byzantines and Arabs had turned the eastern Mediterranean into a no man’s land for merchant activity.

Within 35 years, Islamic Turks and seized control of Christian territories in Anatolia, larger than the entire region of Germany and threatened France & Italy.

In response to the muslim invasion, Pope Urban II gave a speech that united an international group that included French, Flemish, English & German peasants, knights, and kings who all came together to defend and take back the lands that had been taken. This was something unique in human history. The Catholic church had created a multinational network that united Europeans of all stripes and ethnicities under a common faith with common goals. While not every Crusade was a success, consider the logistics of European armies traveling thousands of miles to fight unfamiliar enemies on their own homeland. The Reconquista and First Crusade were roaring success defeating every muslim army they faced. Europe remained Christian for centuries and the muslims were driven out.

So many Europeans being united by on religion and engaging in a civilization wide fight had not happened before and has not happened since. The Crusades achieved what other religions and ideologies could not. Perhaps this is why our modern secular system demonizes the Crusades.




Posted by LuckyTiger
Someone's Alter
Member since Dec 2008
49425 posts
Posted on 2/4/24 at 7:48 am to

Posted by SECSolomonGrundy
Slaughter Swamp
Member since Jun 2012
17404 posts
Posted on 2/4/24 at 7:48 am to
Says a lot about the influence of religion.
Posted by Flats
Member since Jul 2019
25149 posts
Posted on 2/4/24 at 7:57 am to
quote:

Says a lot about the influence of religion.


Most people have a religion, and some of the more ardent adherents are atheists.
Posted by LSUGrad2024
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2023
458 posts
Posted on 2/4/24 at 7:57 am to
quote:

majority Christian population


It was about 70% Christian and 20% Jewish/Samaritan/Manichaen/Pagan

Arabia was about 60% to 65% Christian with about 25% Jewish, and about 10% Pagan

Then came some sick freak like Mohammed who would have sex with children, and like Joseph Smith, claimed he received Prophecies despite being unable to perform any miracles

If the Roman-Sassanian war hadn't crippled both Empires just a few years before the rise of Islam, it would have been very difficult (almost impossible) for the Muslims to do as well as they had
Posted by Epaminondas
The Boot
Member since Jul 2020
5463 posts
Posted on 2/4/24 at 7:59 am to
Posted by Penrod
Member since Jan 2011
46538 posts
Posted on 2/4/24 at 8:01 am to
On the other hand, if the crusaders had lost we wouldn’t have trannies and BLM.
Posted by BIGFOOD
Member since Jun 2011
12933 posts
Posted on 2/4/24 at 8:02 am to
Posted by LSUGrad2024
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2023
458 posts
Posted on 2/4/24 at 8:06 am to
Fun fact: Hulagu Khan hated muslims (his mother was a Christian, and his favorite wife) and kept asking Christian Crusaders to team up and destroy all of Arabia and Islam.

Nobody took him serious.

Shame.
Posted by MAADFACTS
Member since Jul 2021
1410 posts
Posted on 2/4/24 at 8:07 am to
The first crusade was definitely justified and mostly successful.
Posted by KiwiHead
Auckland, NZ
Member since Jul 2014
32769 posts
Posted on 2/4/24 at 8:16 am to
.....sort of, but you need to read more into your history. The Christian West had made peace with the Arab rulers of Palestine beginning around 800 and those Arabs guaranteed safe passage of Christian pilgrims. I believe when the Seljuk Turks came in they were still fighting the Arabs and did not care much at all about the Christians and their safe passage.

The Christians have no one to blame but themselves for the Turks . If the Bysantine emperor had left the Turks alone on the frontier as they were moving south towards other Muslim held lands Anatolia would not have been invaded which scared the Pope and Western rulers at the time.

After the Battle of Manzikrit, the Turks went on a hell raising tour of Anatolia. The Greek Byzantines however still ruled the seas....it really was not until the Ottomans show up around 1300 that the Med goes up for challenge and by that time the crusades were over. Also Venetian ships ruled that part of the Med....really until Mehmet comes to power. After that yes Muslims ruled that part, but there was significant trade with the Ottomans, they were all about business. Forced conversion for them was largely a rare thing. You send the sultan his tribute, he left you alone. frick with him and comes down hard and takes noble sons and forces them into his Janissaries Corps and Islam.

Ottomans did not frick with Jews or Christians in terms of religion all that much. Syrian Christians and Egyptian Christians did just fine under Ottoman rule. Orthodox in the Balkans were not bothered either.

Muslims did most of their forced conversions in the Middle East and North Africa and they did it early on. Most of the non coastal populations embraced Islam vs Christianity mainly because their new Arab rulers were not nearly as corrupt as their old Roman rulers

Posted by crewdepoo
Hogwarts
Member since Jan 2015
10472 posts
Posted on 2/4/24 at 8:17 am to
God isn't real.
Posted by udtiger
Over your left shoulder
Member since Nov 2006
107629 posts
Posted on 2/4/24 at 8:30 am to
Yes. This is correct.

However, they were:

White
Male
Catholic/Christian

And fought against dark people.

So, of course, they were evil.
This post was edited on 2/4/24 at 8:31 am
Posted by oogabooga68
Member since Nov 2018
27194 posts
Posted on 2/4/24 at 8:31 am to
quote:

God isn't real.






So edgy....so.....kewwwl.......
Posted by GBPackTigers
Louisiana
Member since Sep 2009
1433 posts
Posted on 2/4/24 at 8:33 am to
quote:

God isn't real.



And what happens to you if you’re wrong. Like so many other times on this board. Interesting gamble since you have no proof God isn’t real.
This post was edited on 2/4/24 at 8:35 am
Posted by Azkiger
Member since Nov 2016
25144 posts
Posted on 2/4/24 at 8:36 am to
quote:

Most people have a religion, and some of the more ardent adherents are atheists.




How many atheist martyrs can you name?
Posted by oogabooga68
Member since Nov 2018
27194 posts
Posted on 2/4/24 at 8:36 am to
quote:

since you have no proof God isn’t real.


His disappointment in himself is his "proof".
Posted by scrooster
Resident Ethicist
Member since Jul 2012
40977 posts
Posted on 2/4/24 at 8:41 am to
quote:

God isn't real.

You really need to read about this guy named Pascal, and this little wager he made.
Posted by LSUGrad2024
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2023
458 posts
Posted on 2/4/24 at 8:41 am to
(no message)
This post was edited on 2/4/24 at 8:50 am
Posted by ChineseBandit58
Pearland, TX
Member since Aug 2005
45936 posts
Posted on 2/4/24 at 8:42 am to
quote:

influence of religion.

everyone has a religion - it is what separates us from the rest of the plant and animal kingdoms.

If you reject any 'god' of any stripe, then your religion is established as 'not that' and are too ashamed, or too mentally feeble to address your actual belief system.

I think religion as a non capitalized noun does not define nor discard any moral belief system. Closest adjective I got for that is narcissism, which would be your 'religion.' - you choose a better description of your belief system

IF you want to identify with the animal kingdom - so be it - you are not human. and there are a lot of people who have traded in the concept of being considered 'human' for the rewards available to those with no humanity.
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