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Started By
Message
re: Teacher Pay Raises
Posted on 10/28/19 at 3:04 pm to ShortyRob
Posted on 10/28/19 at 3:04 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
How does this rebut the point made?
Because someone said good principals would distribute merit based raises fairly and I agree.
But what about those schools with bad principals who would just give raises to everyone or worse just hook up their friends regardless of weather they have earned it or not.
This post was edited on 10/28/19 at 3:06 pm
3
Posted on 10/28/19 at 3:06 pm to memphis tiger
quote:What about them?
But what about those schools with bad principals who would jus twice raises to everyone or worse just hook up their friends regardless of weather they have earned it or not.
Welcome to human endeavors. No human endeavor is perfect.
Oh, and those principles have bosses too.
I mean, you don't replace human judgement which is 100x better than centralized planning just because you can prove that SOME of those humans will fail.
Posted on 10/28/19 at 3:07 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
I mean, you don't replace human judgement which is 100x better than centralized planning just because you can prove that SOME of those humans will fail
True
Posted on 10/28/19 at 3:08 pm to memphis tiger
(no message)
This post was edited on 1/20/20 at 1:19 pm
Posted on 10/28/19 at 3:09 pm to SlidellCajun
I taught for 32 years...public, private, high school, middle and elementary. The concept of giving a teacher a raise based on merit is an interesting and seemingly applicable standard. But, since this is Tigerdroppings, use the LSU football team as a comparison. To compare similarly, the football team cannot recruit...the football team must follow the plan of the AD and apply that plan weekly...the football team cannot substitute players, we MUST play with those assigned...the football team must move at a pace that is determined by the least talented 25% of the football team...Do you see where I'm going? Teachers have become the swiss army knife of society. So much of what they are forced to do in the classroom wasn't taught in college method classes. I believe public education is the cornerstone of our country. I believe public education is a calling. It was frustrating, exhausting, thankless and demoralizing many days, But that ONE would show up and life's not so bad again. I relate these superficial measures to fixing the symptom and not the disease. The dynamic and culture of education and for education has to change.
Posted on 10/28/19 at 3:12 pm to memphis tiger
I would add that centralized decision making on stuff like this is a morale killer. The military, where I have experience with it, will NEVER figure this the frick out.
But, there's really nothing more friggin annoying than working in an environment where everyone around you considers you the "go to" person, and then, promotions come out, and everyone around you is like, "holy frick, how did THAT dude make it?".............and you didn't.
Not just because you think you should have but because the answer of "how" is genuinely unanswerable.
If I and 10 other people work for a boss and one of those 10 is just a kick arse mofo and gets promoted, I can say, "gotta match up with that level" if I want to get promoted. I can directly see the expectation.
When you centralized it, it becomes 100% box checking and frankly, some of the best box checkers are great at it because it's ALL THEY frickING DO!
But, there's really nothing more friggin annoying than working in an environment where everyone around you considers you the "go to" person, and then, promotions come out, and everyone around you is like, "holy frick, how did THAT dude make it?".............and you didn't.
Not just because you think you should have but because the answer of "how" is genuinely unanswerable.
If I and 10 other people work for a boss and one of those 10 is just a kick arse mofo and gets promoted, I can say, "gotta match up with that level" if I want to get promoted. I can directly see the expectation.
When you centralized it, it becomes 100% box checking and frankly, some of the best box checkers are great at it because it's ALL THEY frickING DO!
Posted on 10/28/19 at 3:13 pm to ShortyRob
(no message)
This post was edited on 1/20/20 at 1:21 pm
Posted on 10/28/19 at 3:13 pm to cahoots
Can I also add that requiring teaching degrees to teach is fricking dumb.
Just thought I'd throw that in here.
Just thought I'd throw that in here.
Posted on 10/28/19 at 3:13 pm to FtHuntTiger
quote:
Sure there are bad teachers, just like any other profession.
But anyone who says most teachers are overpaid doesn't know anything about teaching. At any level, one of the toughest, most underappreciated jobs out there.
Yeah, all the people yapping about paying the physics teacher more than the elementary teacher. I'd like to see them walk into a classroom full of 6-year-old kids from the hood and teach them how to read and do arithmetic.
Posted on 10/28/19 at 3:15 pm to cahoots
quote:Direct quote from his wife after he'd been assaulted for the THIRD time in 2 years.
You indirectly bring up a good point. Mental health counselors. Teachers at bad schools are essentially being asked to do things that they are not equipped to do.
"If I wanted to worry about my husband coming home from work alive, I would have married a cop".
THAT is what you're dealing with.
quote:Can that counselor make it so the kids in the school, along with a SUBSTANTIAL PORTION of their parents, aren't violent shits?
My buddy's school has ONE counselor for 1,000 students
If you think that can't be improved, I don't know what to tell you
Posted on 10/28/19 at 3:17 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
LOL
It is literally REAL that in the REAL world, the Phsyics teacher commands more pay.
You're assuming that in your "real world" the people being taught physics already know how to fricking read and add.
You're exactly who I'm talking about. I'd like to see you walk into a classroom of 25 six year olds from the ghetto and teach them how to fricking read. You'd probably walk out at the end of the day, go home and get hammered, and never go back.
Posted on 10/28/19 at 3:18 pm to cahoots
quote:
I cannot comprehend how people think we don't have a teacher quality problem.
We definitely do.
We do not need to pay inadequate teachers more money. So how do you recruit and retain "better" teachers? Obviously pay raises would be a great start. It's just not going to happen outside of private schools or wealthier school districts that don't mind paying higher taxes for the benefit of the students and where the teachers are held to a strict standard. There will never be enough tax revenue for schools to pay competitive salaries to attract the best and brightest into education.
I am against throwing money at the situation just because they are "underpaid".
Posted on 10/28/19 at 3:20 pm to BamaGradinTn
quote:Well, I mean, quite obviously, if you can't read and add, you won't be in a Physics class so, I'm not sure what you think is so humorous.
You're assuming that in your "real world" the people being taught physics already know how to fricking read and add.
Not everyone takes Physics.
quote:I have no doubt that this is exceedingly challenging.
You're exactly who I'm talking about. I'd like to see you walk into a classroom of 25 six year olds from the ghetto and teach them how to fricking read.
Alas, if I advertised for that job, the total number of qualified applicants at ANY salary point would be many multiples of the total number of qualified applicants should I list a Physics teacher job.
That's life. We don't determine pay simply by difficulty of the job. We determine it by how much it takes to get someone who can do it in the manner we want them to do it.
That you don't know this, is, well, not a positive indicator.
quote:Which, of course, is really why getting good teachers in the ghetto is hard.
You'd probably walk out at the end of the day, go home and get hammered, and never go back.
The good ones can't wait to leave. So, even if you get lucky and hire one, you ain't gonna keep em.
Posted on 10/28/19 at 3:20 pm to ShortyRob
(no message)
This post was edited on 1/20/20 at 1:22 pm
Posted on 10/28/19 at 3:21 pm to cahoots
quote:We do. I don't know why you even post this.
I cannot comprehend how people think we don't have a teacher quality problem.
90% of this thread is about the teacher quality problem.
But, your problem is you are horribly misdiagnosed WHY the problem exists.
Posted on 10/28/19 at 3:24 pm to cahoots
quote:
I mean, it helps. It certainly doesn't make sense to place that burden exclusively on the teacher.
My mom teachers at a nice private school. Multiple counselors on staff. Those kids have personal issues too
I guarantee you that if you came to where I live right now and we placed two ads for 10 teachers out there.
1. In Madison City Schools teaching high school
2. Teaching at Lee High School, Huntsville, same salary as #1 plus 15%
We're gonna have people beating the door down for #1, and, you probably aren't going to have enough applicants for #2.
Posted on 10/28/19 at 3:28 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
And make no mistake. If you're paying fricking art teachers what it takes to hire an advanced Calculus teacher.............you know who ELSE will notice?
The taxpayer with an actual fricking skill making 60% of what Art teachers are making.
Here's a thought: instead of art teachers, let's use PE teachers. In other words...football, baseball, and basketball coaches.
Good luck getting communities in Louisiana, MIssissippi, Georgia, Alabama, and Florida to go along with paying their coaches less than what the rest of the faculty makes.
At least the art teacher is actually likely teaching from bell to bell, giving kids some marketable skills. All of us have known coaches who sat on their asses all of class, or they took the kids out to sit on the bleachers while they mowed or lined the field, or better yet, didn't even show up for class.
Look, all of your ideas aren't bad. They're just utterly unrealistic.
Posted on 10/28/19 at 3:31 pm to BamaGradinTn
quote:
All of us have known coaches who sat on their asses all of class
And many have probably know coaches who weren’t teachers doing the same.
I think coaches receive whatever the other teachers receive and a negotiated bonus for coaching.
Posted on 10/28/19 at 3:31 pm to BamaGradinTn
quote:
Yeah, all the people yapping about paying the physics teacher more than the elementary teacher. I'd like to see them walk into a classroom full of 6-year-old kids from the hood and teach them how to read and do arithmetic.
And yet those kids still have teachers. Some of those DGAF and collect their check. Some of them care but, bless their hearts, just aren't very smart. And some of those teaching those kids are great at their job.
AND THEY ALL GET PAID THE SAME!!!!!
If that doesn't piss you off I don't know what will.
Posted on 10/28/19 at 3:32 pm to memphis tiger
quote:
But what about those schools with bad principals who would just give raises to everyone or worse just hook up their friends regardless of weather they have earned it or not.
Seems to me, it’s akin to giving $1,000
Raises to inept teachers for no other reason than - it’s how the math worked out.
Elect good board members who will hire good superintendents who will hire good principals and it all flows from there. Nothing is perfect though. Just varying degrees of imperfection...
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