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Message
re: Tariffs on importers from China going to 25% Friday, apparently
Posted on 5/7/19 at 5:33 am to buckeye_vol
Posted on 5/7/19 at 5:33 am to buckeye_vol
quote:
he deserves the criticism for it, and my issue is that when he posts something substantive, the responses are largely insults and accusations.
that's how it's been since the beginning when i've criticized trump. i embrace it. if i took shite meekly they'd just say cuck rather than seethe like nct does
0
Posted on 5/7/19 at 5:33 am to 90proofprofessional
quote:Good Lord.
i guess to the extent i have IP they're stealing that i would be making money off of?
you gonna explain the connection between this and the "average worker", or just pound the table like you always do?
Does your retirement plan hold a position in Microsoft? If so you are paying for theft.
Do you use Microsoft products on your personal computer? If so you are paying for theft.
That is the way theft works. Costs are built in and passed on to honest consumers. Your presumption otherwise is painfully simpleton.
Posted on 5/7/19 at 5:34 am to buckeye_vol
quote:
I mean China only represented like 1% of the steel used in the states, and the vast majority (like 3/4ths) came from domestic steel. So it’s been strange that one of the most popular examples argued China gutting a US industry, is probably one of the worst examples in reality.
WTF???? The US is the largest IMPORTER of steel worldwide. Two largest sources Canada and Mexico. And where do they get their steel chini. Its a work around when we first put tariffs on chini steel, they backdoored us using NAFTA.
Posted on 5/7/19 at 5:37 am to 90proofprofessional
quote:you can’t even understand what you read and somebodies supposed to take you serious. GTFOutta here, adults are conversing
in China
Posted on 5/7/19 at 5:37 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Presumably one simply directs the response to the legitimate substance and away from the personal derision. In the process, substance takes care of itself.
this is an echo chamber, by design
lmao at this delusional nonsense
quote:
claims that widespread theft doesn't impact honest consumers and/or employees
i didn't claim "doesn't impact", i claimed that it has gradually taken the central place in rhetorically justifying the trade war. just a couple years back all we heard about was the theft of the blue-collar economy via trade deficits and cheap chinese goods. although buckeye is correct about the ambiguity and the problem that it brings for quantifying exactly what has been "stolen" and from whom- which is another reason this argument is a fig leaf.
eta- and i'll note that even the tenuous connection you try to draw has to go through the consumer first before it can even hope to arrive at the "average worker". and with this you ignore all the overt protectionism at the expense of the consumer inherent in the execution of this war, and the rhetoric of those fighting it, and that of those cheering it.
This post was edited on 5/7/19 at 5:53 am
Posted on 5/7/19 at 5:39 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Does your retirement plan hold a position in Microsoft?
so by "average worker", you mean equity holders in specific software firms starring in NCT anecdotes?
Posted on 5/7/19 at 5:40 am to trinidadtiger
quote:OK? That has nothing to do with the fact that the majority of our steel comes from ourselves.
WTF???? The US is the largest IMPORTER of steel worldwide.
Posted on 5/7/19 at 5:40 am to trinidadtiger
quote:
Two largest sources Canada and Mexico.
we are our largest source, and it's not even close
Posted on 5/7/19 at 5:42 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
You mean as opposed to a "magic wand"?
no i mean do you have any evidence that these particular jobs came back from china after having the left the US
because it really looked like you were implying that when you said "US unemployment now stands at record lows? Really odd. Where'd all those jobs come from?"
Posted on 5/7/19 at 5:43 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
90% of Microsoft materials in China are pirated. There is nothing ambiguous about that.
actually its more than that I think. I heard the CEO in an interview and some talking head said "well Microsoft is an example of American companies being successful in china you have a dominant share in op software". The CEO said we have a dominant share....and 1% sales.
Thanks for your insights NC, some on here just dont get it.
The other argument I am so tired of, the IP theft is US companies doing business in chini, let the buyer beware. Really, did the US military sign a joint venture with chini that I am not aware of?????Then why do their aircraft carriers look strikingly similar, why do their missile guidance systems mimic ours, and why is their new fightter jet an f-35 with a different logo????
Posted on 5/7/19 at 5:47 am to trinidadtiger
how ironic is it that the main thing about TPP i didn't like was that i thought we tried to go too far with IP protection?
Posted on 5/7/19 at 6:00 am to 90proofprofessional
quote:Perhaps you should re-read the post your erroneous response attempts to address. It is indicative of your continued willful stupidity here which even left buckeye_vol critical.
you mean equity holders
Posted on 5/7/19 at 7:49 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Perhaps you should re-read the post your erroneous response attempts to address
you have 100% failed to argue that IP of Microsoft, let alone IP in general, is or should be a main concern to "average worker". your own connection here between the two is weak af
and btw, perhaps you should try to recall for a second that IP itself is a government-granted monopoly, which by design allows higher prices to be charged to users, and allows the monopoly-holder to force the user to either bear the cost or do without the product. and here you try to imply that enforcing IP will result in a lower price? think your shite through for once.
IP concern is justified- for those who own the IP- but it is just laughably far away from being any kind of primary interest for the average worker. that's just some weak-arse frameshifting by trump advocates
quote:
indicative of your continued willful stupidity here
you tried to act like rhetoric that willfully and deceptively conflates workers with consumers/equityholders, is self-evidently truthful, and now that you've had to lay it out you see how feeble it isThis post was edited on 5/7/19 at 7:54 am
Posted on 5/7/19 at 7:52 am to buckeye_vol
quote:
So it’s been strange that one of the most popular examples argued China gutting a US industry, is probably one of the worst examples in reality.
In terms of direct imports, you would be correct. In short, if the US is importing steel from anyone other than Germany, than the odds are that the steel in question originated in China. My family is directly connected to the business so I am pretty knowledgeable on this. The issue is assuming that you can trust the Chinese and their figures. From a strategic stanpoint, they have an amazing long game. Steel, even if the data doesn't seem to support it, was a part of the equation.
Think of the movie "Scarface" and the line:
"I'm not going to kill you".
At this point, that is all people seem to be hearing. However, the next line, largely ignored...
"He is going to kill you".
That is China.
TLDR
You CANNOT trust the Chinese...PERIOD!
Posted on 5/7/19 at 8:01 am to jimmy the leg
quote:
if the US is importing steel from anyone other than Germany, than the odds are that the steel in question originated in China
how much? all of it? this claim is made often, and i'd be willing to believe it's partially true, but where's the data on this? our biggest source of steel imports (the total of which remains less than half of our consumption) are the biggest primary producers
Posted on 5/7/19 at 8:05 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
It's a de facto tax on American citizens
China’s protectionism is also a de facto tax on American citizens. God y’all are obtuse.
Posted on 5/7/19 at 8:13 am to TeLeFaWx
quote:No. It's a de facto tax on their own citizens. And if anything, it could potentially decrease demand, and unless supply is decreased accordingly, then there would be downward pressure for those same products here.
China’s protectionism is also a de facto tax on American citizens.
quote:Arguing that a tax placed on products sold in China is somehow a tax on the country that doesn't have that tax is quite an obtuse argument itself.
God y’all are obtuse.
This post was edited on 5/7/19 at 8:16 am
Posted on 5/7/19 at 8:15 am to TeLeFaWx
quote:
China’s protectionism is also a de facto tax on American citizens. God y’all are obtuse.
multilat deals that cut china out while getting us better deals than we already have is a much better way
it doesn't have quite the emotional appeal of lashing out in a way that will be inferior at best and may fail entirely, though
Posted on 5/7/19 at 8:19 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Costs are built in and passed on to honest consumers. Your presumption otherwise is painfully simpleton.
Not just that, but it hurts the stock holders....
Posted on 5/7/19 at 8:23 am to Jjdoc
quote:
Not just that, but it hurts the stock holders....
i'll buy that weak IP protection hurts the stockholders, but not consumers really
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