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Started By
Message
re: Susan Rice: US can 'tolerate' nuclear weapons in North Korea
Posted on 8/10/17 at 12:19 pm to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 8/10/17 at 12:19 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Iran is next. if we bend over and allow NK to dictate international policy to us, China, SK, and Japan, then Iran will do the same thing. if y'all think NK is scary, a nuclear Iran makes that look like child's play. we'll have a Middle Eastern nuclear arms race that could obliterate the petroleum necessary to run the modern world
0
Posted on 8/10/17 at 12:20 pm to indianswim
She needs to shut her whore mouth. They had 8 years to do something. They didn't do shite, while every minute North Korea was closer to having a Nuke. To be fair Bush and Clinton didn't do anything either and Clinton may have actually helped them achieve their goal faster.
Posted on 8/10/17 at 12:21 pm to indianswim
To paraphrase, we had the option of dishonor or war. We chose dishonor and will likely have war.
Posted on 8/10/17 at 12:21 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:Indeed. And no amount of "tolerance" is going to change that.
NK is legitamately unpredictable.
quote:It made no sense to hand them the capability. Their capability is only going to get better. When it comes to nuclear proliferation... prevention is way better than trying to cure it after-the-fact.
I fear for Nuclear war if they ever do ramp up
Posted on 8/10/17 at 12:22 pm to indianswim
Nice talking points.
I wonder who wrote them for her.
I wonder who wrote them for her.
Posted on 8/10/17 at 12:22 pm to Ponchy Tiger
quote:
She needs to shut her whore mouth. They had 8 years to do something. They didn't do shite,
but they did. they tolerated NK
it worked out brilliantly, as we see today
Posted on 8/10/17 at 12:24 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:China desperately wants to be the dominant power in the region. To do that they must control the East and South China Seas which means they need to be able to counter our Navy which can operate with impunity all over the world. China's main threat to our Navy are anti-ship ballistic missiles. This is why the hate the thought of an effective anti-ballistic missile shield in the region. And that is why they sanctioned SK. Not because they give a shite about NK.
i mean just look at what China did to SK after SK originally accepted THAAD: hit SK with economic sanctions
Posted on 8/10/17 at 12:24 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
a nuclear Iran makes that look like child's play
I think it's completely logical for Iran to want a nuclear weapon. Look at what happened with Libya and Ghadaffi. I imagine most Iranians, even those who are opposed to the hardliners and mullahs, see nuclear weapons as the only thing saving them from an invasion and subsequent war. Given our involvement in their 1950's coup, our role in aiding and arming Saddam's invading armies in the 1980's and the neoconservative faction of our government's constant war propaganda, their fear is absolutely rational.
I just don't understand how people can be hard-line on Iran yet accept our alliances with the Gulf States, whose version of Islam is far more radical than the Iranian Shia's and inspires far more terrorist attacks against the West.
Posted on 8/10/17 at 12:25 pm to antibarner
quote:
I think behind the scenes it will have to be carrot and stick. Give up the nukes and we will make it worth your while. Help you feed your people and we will not interfere in your internal affairs.
That's how we got where we are today thanks to the Clinton administration
Posted on 8/10/17 at 12:26 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
we haven't put real pressure on China. we have been weak, just like how Susan Rice wants us to project
What pressure do you suggest? Trump initially took the opposite approach and went all carrot and no stick. He basically conceded to China's position on all matters in their sphere and couldn't get China to cooperate. Past presidents tried to play the moral obligation card(including this one) and it hasn't worked. So what do you now suggest?
quote:
then we have to pressure them to allow a plan for regime change or destroying Pyonyang
So again, how do you pressure China? You act like there was this easy solution that GW, Obama, and Trump up until now were just too stupid to use.
Posted on 8/10/17 at 12:26 pm to Ponchy Tiger
quote:
They had 8 years to do something. They didn't do shite, while every minute North Korea was closer to having a Nuke.
Not only that, but North Korea had nukes in 2013 and they knew about it. And yet they still went with the flow of "strategic patience" for another 3 years.
Fox
Posted on 8/10/17 at 12:31 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:Several posters, including SFP have given you a specific answer to this question. You're ignoring those answers because right now you're argument is "Well what do you think we should do!?!?" So you ignore the answer to your very question because your entire argument is based off of being able to ask that question.
So again, how do you pressure China?
Posted on 8/10/17 at 12:31 pm to BamaFan365
Years ago we did not want KN to develop long range rockets. They worked on it. We "punished" them over and over. NK eventually got the rockets and technology they wanted.
Years ago NK wanted nucular power. They did not have the know how or means. we told them no. They did it anyhow. We "punished" them over and over. They now have the nucular means they were after.
NK keeps getting what they were set out to get.
Years ago NK said death to America. Today NK says Death to America with the gun pressued up against our head. I guess we can live with that. It's not like they pressed the trigger.
Years ago NK wanted nucular power. They did not have the know how or means. we told them no. They did it anyhow. We "punished" them over and over. They now have the nucular means they were after.
NK keeps getting what they were set out to get.
Years ago NK said death to America. Today NK says Death to America with the gun pressued up against our head. I guess we can live with that. It's not like they pressed the trigger.
Posted on 8/10/17 at 12:32 pm to HeyHeyHogsAllTheWay
quote:
Nonsense, you call the head asian over there and you tell him "you have 30 days to depose Kim Jung Un and remove all nuclear weapons from NK, on day 31 we begin arming both South Korea and Japan with nuclear strike capability"
Kim Jong would be dead within 48 hours. We just have to play hardball with China.
Life is not Game of Thrones or a cheap spy movie.
The regime has had attempts at coups, remember when Un killed his own half-brother who was under Chinese protection? The truth is the regime as a whole sees nukes as a deterrent against regime change. If we had an easy way to overthrow the regime, it would of ben done.
Giving more weapons to SK or Japan is not going to change the calculus of deterrence one iota either.
Posted on 8/10/17 at 12:33 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:
So again, how do you pressure China? You act like there was this easy solution that GW, Obama, and Trump up until now were just too stupid to use
The Chinese clearly didn't respect Obama. That couldn't have been made more evident at the China G20 where they left him on the tarmac having to exit Air Force One through the service door in the back.
SlowFloPro made a good point about pressuring China through their desire to be the dominant country who calls the shot in their region. If it looks like they can't curtail NoKo's activity, even after approving sanctions, they lose that status.
Posted on 8/10/17 at 12:33 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:
Giving more weapons to SK or Japan is not going to change the calculus of deterrence one iota either.
Why do you think this?Posted on 8/10/17 at 12:34 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
Several posters, including SFP have given you a specific answer to this question. You're ignoring those answers because right now you're argument is "Well what do you think we should do!?!?" So you ignore the answer to your very question because your entire argument is based off of being able to ask that question.
Shame is not an answer. China is not going to be shamed into substituting our political self-interest for theirs.
Posted on 8/10/17 at 12:34 pm to Taxing Authority
quote:
These fools are from the "best way to avoid conflict is to surrender in a hurry" school of diplomacy.
They must have some French blood in them...
Posted on 8/10/17 at 12:34 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:
So again, how do you pressure China? You act like there was this easy solution that GW, Obama, and Trump up until now were just too stupid to use.
There are two EASY options.
1. Stop ALL Chinese flagged cargo ships from unloading their junk on US soil until they get rid of the problem
2. Threaten to arm South Korea and Japan with nuclear weapons.
China would fold in either case.
Posted on 8/10/17 at 12:35 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:Who's talking about shame?
Shame is not an answer. China is not going to be shamed into substituting our political self-interest for theirs.
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