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re: Stephen Hawking Dead - Hawking Radiation Proves Existence of God
Posted on 3/15/18 at 1:01 pm to lsufanz
Posted on 3/15/18 at 1:01 pm to lsufanz
quote:
So the starving kid who has never heard of Christ or God burns forever in the lake of fire for not sharing half the cockroach with his little sister.
If we are going to use such absurd scenarios, if there isn't an objective standard, is the brother obliged by anything other than his feelings to give his sister half of his cockroach. If he decides it's better for him to eat the whole cockroach and live and let his sister die, is he morally wrong?
1
Posted on 3/15/18 at 1:01 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Since the law of God is written on the hearts of men, when we violate our consciences, we break the law and are guilty of sin.
Is the sociopath blameless before God?
I kid.
Will these violations of conscience by the otherwise ignorant ever be absolved through their torment?
Posted on 3/15/18 at 1:02 pm to lsufanz
quote:
By the way, does an individual with a sociopathic disorder have a conscience?
Posted on 3/15/18 at 1:02 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Christianity abides by laws of logic
And yet it violates one of the most fundamental laws governing philosophy and logic: That being that free will cannot coexist with omniscience. If even one omniscient being exists, free will is at best an illusion.
Yet, Christianity claims we have free will in the presence of an omniscient deity.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 1:06 pm to Lg
quote:Why is this absurd? If his conscience tells him that he should share with the sister and he doesn't, he has sinned and is headed for the lake according to commentary in this thread.
If we are going to use such absurd scenarios, if there isn't an objective standard, is the brother obliged by anything other than his feelings to give his sister half of his cockroach. If he decides it's better for him to eat the whole cockroach and live and let his sister die, is he morally wrong?
quote:Is this not the law written on his heart by God?
obliged by anything other than his feelings
This post was edited on 3/15/18 at 1:08 pm
Posted on 3/15/18 at 1:07 pm to lsufanz
quote:
Would still like to hear thoughts on this
Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
You see I believe God is so good that every ear will hear the Gospel and have that chance to choose, just as I believe those that died before Jesus came and had the chance to choose Him as Savior were given that chance when He descended into Hell before ascending to Heaven.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 1:12 pm to Azkiger
quote:If God is God, who are we to question whether or not He actually is good or evil? Why worship Satan (if he were a good guy) if He has no power over God? Sounds like an exercise in futility to me.
This is one of the most fun questions to pose with regards to critiques of Christianity.
How do you know God is the good guy? Because you think he acts good? He supposedly wrote the law (morality) into our hearts so we'd know right from wrong. So the only way we can judge whether or not God is good is an ability that God crafted and granted to us?
If God were bad, surely he'd wire us incorrectly, so that we'd think he's the good guy and Satan is the bad guy.
The only think we know for sure is that we exist ("I think, therefore I am"). We have to trust our sense perception to determine everything outside of that. If our senses aren't generally reliable then our connection to the outside world (including what we can know about God) is not reliable and we can't really know anything. Likewise, if our ability to "sense" morality through our consciences is messed up, we can't really know what "good" and "bad" really are and morality, itself, is put on shaky ground.
I contend that everyone knows deep down what "good" and "bad" is (again, generally speaking), and that the knowledge testifies to the truth of the God of the Bible.
quote:Perhaps. Or perhaps your understanding of what God has done and why, as well as your understanding of God, man, and our relationship with one another is flawed which gives you a flawed perception of who God is.
And honestly, seeing all the people God himself killed, ordered others to kill, or who's laws he demanded be followed resulted in the deaths of others (Hell, a guy was stoned for picking up sticks on the wrong day of the week - for example) and comparing that to the body count of Satan... Perhaps we have it backwards...
Posted on 3/15/18 at 1:13 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
You've never been in charge of anyone in your life, have you?
wrong quote:
I communicate at a level appropriate for my audience.
wrong quote:
I already made my point...
When it finds its way into legislation, it certainly applies.
I responded directly to that point. That's when you replied with your nonsense.
Now that we are caught up, are you going to make a point?
Or, will you just continue to muddy the waters so that you can back out of the conversation?
This post was edited on 3/15/18 at 1:14 pm
Posted on 3/15/18 at 1:14 pm to Lg
quote:Does this apply to those who have died since, but before the preachers, witnesses, missionaries had the opportunity to share the gospel with them?
I believe those that died before Jesus came and had the chance to choose Him as Savior were given that chance when He descended into Hell before ascending to Heaven.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 1:15 pm to Azkiger
quote:Yeah, I realize that's a tough sell for people with a completely different worldview. There's a reason why the Bible says that the truth is foolishness to those who are perishing.
Good luck arguing infinite punishment for finite crimes. Oh, and also blood sacrifices and scapegoating.
quote:Because He is perfectly holy and sinless. He didn't have to have an infinite punishment because He is the infinite God. His death did everything necessary to wipe away our guilty (if we have faith, of course). He didn't have to suffer in Hell for our sins.
And if Jesus really did take the punishment for us, why isn't he still in Hell?
Posted on 3/15/18 at 1:18 pm to Esquire
quote:I don't have to tell that to them. God has done it already, or will on judgement day.
Tell that to the babies and tribesman who didn’t know about Jesus until he sent them to burn for eternity.
You seem to think that these people are innocent because they are ignorant. It doesn't work with our penal code and it doesn't work with God. There's also such a thing called federal headship whereby we are judged due to the actions of the one who represented us before God: Adam, in sin, and Christ, in righteousness.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 1:20 pm to mofungoo
quote:
Good grief, dude. Humanism is the belief that humans are more important than God or the supernatural.
Good enough.
quote:
Naturally, a person who believes that focuses on themselves as the ultimate answer.
Incorrect. Placing value on humans does not inherently equate to self-centeredness.
quote:
The more I learn the more certain I become that I don't know everything, and all this stuff we see in this world and out is too orderly to have happened by accident.
That is another discussion, but "I don't know" doesn't have to equal "a god did it."
Posted on 3/15/18 at 1:20 pm to FooManChoo
Kind of destroys the “god is perfection” narrative, don’t ya think?
Posted on 3/15/18 at 1:21 pm to lsufanz
quote:It seems that people have lost all understanding of what an analogy is used for. I'm trying to paint a picture of a concept for you. Of course it isn't equivocal and all analogies break down. My point is that we want God to be an unjust judge because we don't like being punished for breaking the law.
First off, equating a child molester and ignorant child is quite a leap
quote:What do you think is an appropriate punishment for treason against an infinitely holy God who created us for the purpose of worshiping Him but curse His name instead?
and I have to worry about an omniscient being that can't wrap his head around a more appropriate punishment, or degrees thereof.
quote:I don't think you understand what sin is.
I understand that an eye for an eye went out with the Old Testament, but apparently it was replaced with eternal hell for picking a booger.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 1:21 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Likewise, if our ability to "sense" morality through our consciences is messed up, we can't really know what "good" and "bad" really are and morality, itself, is put on shaky ground.
quote:
I contend that everyone knows deep down what "good" and "bad" is (again, generally speaking), and that the knowledge testifies to the truth of the God of the Bible.
I'm having a difficult time seeing these as consistent thought.
This post was edited on 3/15/18 at 1:22 pm
Posted on 3/15/18 at 1:24 pm to moneyg
quote:
wrong
I don't believe you.
quote:
wrong
Maybe so, but collectively, I think I'm relatively accurate here.
quote:
I responded directly to that point.
Right, and you received the response that you deserved. No need to melt about it.
quote:
Now that we are caught up, are you going to make a point?
Already done.
quote:
back out of the conversation
That will never happen. It never does.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 1:24 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
What do you think is an appropriate punishment for treason against an infinitely holy God who created us for the purpose of worshiping Him but curse His name instead?
Well, if a punishment is handed down because of failure to provide sufficient evidence of its existence (god, because I find it odd to refer to a deity as a “he”), that’s pretty absurd.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 1:26 pm to northshorebamaman
quote:Not true. Even people who are exposed to Christianity are condemned if they reject it. It's sin that condemns people, not the lack of exposure to Christianity.
But by this very explanation, God does indeed punish people for merely existing if they aren't exposed to Christianity
If you're poisoned and you reject the antidote or didn't know the antidote existed, is it the antidote that kills you or the poison? In this scenario, the poison is sin. The antidote is Jesus Christ's death on the cross. Not knowing about Jesus isn't what condemns people. Their sin does that.
quote:Like I just explained, He punishes people for breaking the law, not for rejecting a plea deal.
According to you he's presiding over a kangaroo court, tormenting people eternally for never having heard of Him. A situation He is ultimately responsible for.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 1:29 pm to FooManChoo
quote:I don't feel this way.
we want God to be an unjust judge because we don't like being punished for breaking the law.
quote:How do you think a child commits this treason? How has this child "cursed His name?" Who is more worthy of punishment in this case?
What do you think is an appropriate punishment for treason against an infinitely holy God who created us for the purpose of worshiping Him but curse His name instead?
quote:I've already conceded that I'm OK admitting that I don't know a lot, but am trying to use the definitions you've provided. If his conscience says not to pick the booger and he does anyway...
I don't think you understand what sin is.
Posted on 3/15/18 at 1:32 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:Ignorantia juris non excusat ("ignorance of the law excuses not")
The deity described in the Bible is such a good guy that he would punish those who had no possibility of knowing they were even rebelling.
The point of Romans 1 is to say that deep down, everyone knows there's a God but everyone who doesn't worship God (or worships something else) is suppressing the truth about God and exchanging it for a lie, so no one is left without an excuse.
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