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re: Spin-off from Churchill thread "Great Men Theory"
Posted on 9/8/24 at 4:42 pm to TxTiger82
Posted on 9/8/24 at 4:42 pm to TxTiger82
quote:
Can you give us the gist? Kinda looks like propaganda
Anymore everything seems like propoganda from one side or the other, especially related to war and history. Your best bet is to get access to as much original source material from all.sides and perspectives and try to create some sort of vision for what really happened.
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Posted on 9/8/24 at 4:45 pm to TxTiger82
Multi part series from 2013. Not sure if would meet our current standards of propaganda. The media has gotten much better at it since
Edward Bernays took over in the 30s. Wiki
Here is a taste.
quote:
Adolf Hitler, born in Braunau, one man who will change the history of the world forever. It follows his childhood to the death of his mother and his broken ambition to become an artist, then further to his entry into politics. His service in the army, accolades, his writing Mein Kampf, politics and most importantly Germany's revival are well explained followed by WW2. It also covers the effect on Germany's after the WW2 defeat up until the fall of the Berlin Wall.
Posted on 9/8/24 at 4:45 pm to burger bearcat
quote:
But I realize he is considered a national hero, and I am not going to start trashing his legacy in front of my kids for the dame reason I stand for the flag.
I asked my kids why they said Abraham Lincoln was one of the best presidents. They said because he freed the slaves.
Next question from me was "Can you tell me what he did to free them?"
Of course they said the Emancipation Proclamation
Then the next 15 minutes were spent on some real history education.
Posted on 9/8/24 at 4:52 pm to Riverside
quote:
Why didn’t Heir Hitler just obey the Munich Accord where he was given the Sudetenland?
That's a damn good question. I have no answer.
Posted on 9/8/24 at 4:58 pm to Willie Stroker
quote:
The subject of leadership books after 911, then hit the doghouse
This post was edited on 9/9/24 at 7:13 am
Posted on 9/8/24 at 5:31 pm to Riverside
quote:
Churchill was a great man because of his resolve in confronting fascism and communism.
I think we should look at outcomes
The Germans are defeated,
Churchill's actions also save Communist Russia, he backs the partition of Europe creating the Soviet Bloc, and his government further expands the Soviet sphere by supporting Communist rebels at the expensive of nationalist and Christian forces. The British are responsible for what happens in both Yugoslavia and in Albania for example.
Further, the war ends the British Empire, ends the UKs status as a great power, and marks the beginning of an economic and social decline which has not stopped.
This post was edited on 9/8/24 at 5:51 pm
Posted on 9/8/24 at 5:38 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
Further, the war ends the British Empire, ends the UKs status as a great power, and marks the beginning of an economic and social decline which has not stopped.
I disagree. They're going to be just fine. Us, maybe not so much.
Posted on 9/8/24 at 5:44 pm to Riverside
quote:
Just because an articulate and well manicured person says something doesn’t make him correct or even intelligent.
Agreed. Being intelligent like Churchill was is what made him intelligent.
Posted on 9/8/24 at 5:51 pm to burger bearcat
quote:
Lincoln is another historical figure who I have grown out of favor with.
Everyone was taught how great Lincoln was
But, he obliterated the constitution - dirty SOB
Posted on 9/8/24 at 7:09 pm to LookSquirrel
First I've heard of hitler being at the Christmas truce. Surprising it never made it into any other history books.
Posted on 9/8/24 at 7:14 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
he backs the partition of Europe creating the Soviet Bloc, and his government further expands the Soviet sphere by supporting Communist rebels at the expensive of nationalist and Christian forces. The British are responsible for what happens in both Yugoslavia and in Albania for example.
That’s not accurate at all. Churchill wanted the Red Army to agree to leave the Eastern Bloc nations at Tehran, but wasn’t able to get FDR to go along. The Brits also supported the Greek and Italian nationalist's and Christians after the war to fend off the communists after the war.
Posted on 9/8/24 at 7:19 pm to burger bearcat
quote:
But I want my kids to experience the feeling of national pride, when they get older they can learn more and come to their own conclusions. But I don't want them growing up to hate their country.
There’s nothing wrong with healthy skepticism. We don’t fly a flag and idk if my kids say the pledge at their school. I don’t bad mouth the country to my kids but the truth is that the government would gladly send them to die if it meant enriching a politician. I have the same amount of allegiance to the country as the country has to me and my family: zero.
Posted on 9/8/24 at 8:00 pm to Riverside
quote:
Churchill wanted the Red Army to agree to leave the Eastern Bloc nations at Tehran, but wasn’t able to get FDR to go along
So he was weak? And couldn't stop it because FDR wouldn't permit it?
quote:
The Brits also supported the Greek and Italian nationalist's and Christians after the war to fend off the communists after the war.
Churchill was gone when that happened.
Posted on 9/8/24 at 9:17 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
So he was weak? And couldn't stop it because FDR wouldn't permit it?
No, he was out voted by FDR and Stalin. What would you have had him do differently? He tried to warn FDR that Stalin couldn’t be trusted.
True, but Churchill had set those plans in motion as the war was ending.
Posted on 9/8/24 at 9:27 pm to Riverside
quote:
He tried to warn FDR that Stalin couldn’t be trusted.
He was in the US after the war giving speeches with glowing praise for Stalin
Churchill didn’t believe in anything.
Posted on 9/9/24 at 6:09 pm to LookSquirrel
quote:
That right there is the problem. He didn't know for sure he would renege. Why not give peace a chance? If he doesn't honor the agreement, then get back at it.
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. You might want to look up Munich 1938 followed by the invasion of Czechoslovakia in March 1939. Do that and then come back and attempt to argue intelligently about this topic.
Posted on 9/9/24 at 6:13 pm to dafif
quote:
First I've heard of hitler being at the Christmas truce. Surprising it never made it into any other history books.
Because he wasn't. From November 1914, Hitler was serving at regimental headquarters, behind the lines, as a dispatch runner. We have no record of him being involved in the truce and scant evidence regarding his opinions of the truce.
This post was edited on 9/9/24 at 6:15 pm
Posted on 9/9/24 at 6:31 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. You might want to look up Munich 1938 followed by the invasion of Czechoslovakia in March 1939. Do that and then come back and attempt to argue intelligently about this topic.
And you might want to use your smart arse and read where I acknowledged this point earlier in this thread.
I had not intended to continue this argument, which, at this point, it has become.
Then again there are some nuances to this agreement from the German perspective, but since you claim to be the scholar on this, maybe you can enlighten us all.
Many thought that Munich was an attempt to encourage Hitler to attack the USSR. The USSR was excluded from the Munich negotiations. Certainly, the British and French knew that the Soviets would understand it that way, and they didn't care.
This post was edited on 9/9/24 at 6:48 pm
Posted on 9/9/24 at 8:22 pm to burger bearcat
What flummoxes me is that in many instances, those “conservatives” most perturbed by the slightest criticism of their pet “conservative” heroes (such Churchill or Reagan) are often times those most likely to be the harshest critics of Trump’s deviation from orthodox Republicanism.
Posted on 9/9/24 at 8:28 pm to Riverside
quote:
Churchill tried to warn FDR about this but he wouldn’t listen.
You omitted that part when Churchill met Stalin in secret and both arranged to carve up Eastern Europe like the scene in the “Godfather II” where Hyman Roth figuratively carved up Cuba for his mafia factions:
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