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re: Southerners...How do you guys view Abraham Lincoln?
Posted on 6/27/25 at 4:36 pm to BuckI
Posted on 6/27/25 at 4:36 pm to BuckI
He invaded the south
His "Prize cases" before SCOTUS was the start of the imperial presidency where presidents could basically go to war without congressional approval
He is wildly overrated. People like him today because he freed the slaves and got assassinated so he gets martyr status.
More of a war criminal if you ask me who did a couple decent things, but not because they were decent - because it was politically expedient.
If the war was about slavery, why did he wait 2 years to issue the emancipation proclamation? Its because it suited the war effort.
His "Prize cases" before SCOTUS was the start of the imperial presidency where presidents could basically go to war without congressional approval
He is wildly overrated. People like him today because he freed the slaves and got assassinated so he gets martyr status.
More of a war criminal if you ask me who did a couple decent things, but not because they were decent - because it was politically expedient.
If the war was about slavery, why did he wait 2 years to issue the emancipation proclamation? Its because it suited the war effort.
1
Posted on 6/27/25 at 4:40 pm to shinerfan
The South Carolinian plantation owners who took control of the plantations from the Dutch East Asian trading companies held a myopic canonical mindset that their cousins from New York would follow them into leaving the union because of the cotton business.
Wrong…. And they ain’t ever been right about much since.
Wrong…. And they ain’t ever been right about much since.
Posted on 6/27/25 at 4:40 pm to BuckI
I have had an ambiguous view of Lincoln. He is the President revered for freeing the slaves and saving the Union. On the other hand I see him as aTyrant who was against state rights and turned the Federal Government into the force of power that it is today. I don't have a negative view of the Confederacy, despite being taught while growing up into having one. Mainly because I grew up in the South. I am glad that the North won though.
Posted on 6/27/25 at 4:41 pm to BuckI
Interesting factoid:
Most biographies published in English Language books:
1. Jesus Christ (yep, they mean New Testament)
2. Abraham Lincoln
Most biographies published in English Language books:
1. Jesus Christ (yep, they mean New Testament)
2. Abraham Lincoln
Posted on 6/27/25 at 4:43 pm to BuckI
This thread has gone as predicted (and probably hoped for by the OP).
Just enough reactionaries to give the left all the ammo they need to
Just enough reactionaries to give the left all the ammo they need to
Posted on 6/27/25 at 4:49 pm to BuckI
quote:Lincoln was Machiavelli marketed as Mother Teresa.
How do you guys view Abraham Lincoln?
Posted on 6/27/25 at 4:53 pm to BuckI
He was Americans 1st gay president.
So not a fan
So not a fan
Posted on 6/27/25 at 4:56 pm to GeauxBurrow312
quote:To avoid angering the border states that remained loyal, so he waited until he felt the union would win to announce it.
If the war was about slavery, why did he wait 2 years to issue the emancipation proclamation? Its because it suited the war effort
Posted on 6/27/25 at 4:58 pm to BuckI
Freed the slaves
Posted on 6/27/25 at 5:02 pm to BuckI
On a penny.
Posted on 6/27/25 at 5:03 pm to BuckI
Posted on 6/27/25 at 5:05 pm to Ag Zwin
quote:
Just enough reactionaries to give the left all the ammo they need to
Oh cmon. If all they have is Lincoln hating… their quiver is void of arrows.
Look. Lincoln is overrated. No question. Still high on the list. But not the brilliant savior he is portrayed to be.
He kept the Union in one piece. Yes. Good.
He immensely f’d up the process to do so. There was diplomatic ways to try to prevent outright war. Or if war was inevitable.. ways to cease hostilities to restart a dialogue. Arguments are there for inevitably of war and against.
If war was inevitable… he sent absolute morons out there to be manhandled for two years by the south. The war was terribly ran by the union prior to Gettysburg.
If Grant had taken the stray bullet at Shiloh instead of Johnston… who friken knows what would have happened. The Union way of retreat immediately after initial misfortune didn’t stop till Grant. Hell… even Sherman was wanting to load the boats after day one at Shiloh. The war would have been 2 years shorter, at least, with better leadership.
He would have had 4 years to show what he had if he had just locked that theater door.
Posted on 6/27/25 at 5:06 pm to shinerfan
quote:That is a good question. If what I have read is accurate, most northerners did not care if the South split off until Ft Sumter. Cotton was so important to industry that at least one northern state talked of joining the succession.
The biggest what if is what if Sumter had never been attacked? Did Lincoln have the political support to launch a war without that spark?
Posted on 6/27/25 at 5:08 pm to SeeeeK
quote:
I know, he and his Union soldiers tore a huge hole in the chocolate starfish of Southerners and their Generals.
I wouldnt consider the fact that the war drug on longer than almost any other that we fought, tearing a huge hole in anything didnt really happen. In fact, the longer you fight the less arse kicking you can claim
Vietnam - 8.4 years (August 10, 1964 to January 23, 1973)
Civil - 4.1 years (April 12, 1861 to May 26, 1865)
WWII - 3.8 years (December 8, 1941 to 2 September 1945)
Korean - 3.1 years (June 25, 1950 to July, 27 1953)
Iraqi - 3 years (March 20, 2003 to May 20, 2006
Mexican - 1.8 years (April 25, 1846 to February 2, 1848)
WWI - 1.5 years (April 6, 1917 to 11 November 1918)
1812 - 1.5 years (June 18, 1812 to December 24, 1814)
Gulf - .1 years (January 17, 1991 to February 28, 1991)
Posted on 6/27/25 at 5:09 pm to SeeeeK
quote:
I know, he and his Union soldiers tore a huge hole in the chocolate starfish of Southerners and their Generals.
The Union actually came very close to losing the war. Public sentiment in the northern states had become anti-war and they wanted it to end. Only the victory at Gettysburg saved the day for the Federals.
Posted on 6/27/25 at 5:47 pm to BuckI
quote:
To avoid angering the border states that remained loyal, so he waited until he felt the union would win to announce it.
Doesn't matter when, he specifically excluded Northern States from the EP anyway.
Posted on 6/27/25 at 5:49 pm to BuckI
quote:
Cotton was so important to industry that at least one northern state talked of joining the succession.
New York considered leaving.
Basically if the South would have been left alone, New England would lose it's grip on the Federal Government.
Posted on 6/27/25 at 8:56 pm to BuckI
He was the first to violate our constitution
Posted on 6/27/25 at 8:58 pm to TigerBait1971
quote:
Are you IBFreeman?
that's the guy i couldn't remember his handle that's every nicholas gage movie ever made!
Posted on 6/28/25 at 4:06 am to Jasharts77
quote:
He was Americans 1st gay president.
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