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re: Southern Baptist convention under DOJ investigation
Posted on 8/13/22 at 10:48 am to HVAU
Posted on 8/13/22 at 10:48 am to HVAU
quote:
but refuse to see how there are church leaders victimizing children right in your houses of prayer.
Who is doing that? I hope they investigate every predator everywhere, but a very public investigation into an organization that isn't hierarchical is political. If they sweep up some actual perps, great, but it doesn't change the motivation or what the FBI has become.
As another poster said, this is like announcing you're investigating McDonald's corporate HQ because a franchise owner committed a crime.
0
Posted on 8/13/22 at 10:49 am to HVAU
Everyone hurting children should be punished.
What’s wrong with you commies?
What’s wrong with you commies?
Posted on 8/13/22 at 11:17 am to Flats
quote:
In their defense they're typically accurate (IMO), but their lesson plans skip over enormous chunks of the OT in favor of crawling through the epistles. It's mainly a preference thing, but one that most of my group shares.
Right on then. I don't like being tied to a set lesson plan like that anyway. Just thought there was something about Lifeway I hadn't heard.
Posted on 8/13/22 at 11:20 am to hawgfaninc
This NY Times article gives some insight into how the DOJ can investigates a non-hierarchical organization. Looks like the targets are seminary leadership (like Paige Patterson, for example) leadership of missions' organizations within the denomination, and whoever had access to the list of abusers and kept quiet about it (probably the SBC Executive Committee)
NY Times via MSN
quote:
Church leaders said in a statement that multiple branches of the denomination, which includes seminaries and missionary organizations, were under investigation and that the church was continuing to “grieve and lament past mistakes.”
In May, leaders of the church published a scathing review that said reports of sexual abuse were suppressed by top church officials for two decades.
NY Times via MSN
Posted on 8/13/22 at 11:22 am to L.A.
quote:
list of abusers
There never was a list of abusers. One member of the executive committee was compiling articles of people who had already been convicted of crimes, but they weren't investigating abuse or keeping a database of any kind. They're basically saying they're going to investigate why the SBC leadership didn't publish already-published information about abusers.
ETA:
quote:
leaders of the church published a scathing review that said reports of sexual abuse were suppressed by top church officials for two decades.
This is stretching the truth. The executive committee paid for this review to happen and then released it, but this wording implies they endorsed and agreed with the findings. Nothing could be further from the truth. This is what I meant earlier when I said they asked for this by giving a platform to lies and conjecture.
Some of the "findings" in that report have already been proven to be complete fabrications. They even lied about some things they say they were told by people they interviewed.
This post was edited on 8/13/22 at 11:27 am
Posted on 8/13/22 at 11:38 am to imjustafatkid
quote:
Just thought there was something about Lifeway I hadn't heard.
What else have your heard? Personally I think their material is garbage.
Posted on 8/13/22 at 11:40 am to Paddyshack
quote:
Now you're cheering on the DOJ going after the church?
A church. Not “the church”
Posted on 8/13/22 at 11:41 am to MRF
quote:
As for SBC officials, the goal is increase their power and influence in the SBC. Since they have practically none right now, a push like this abuse report farce was a good opportunity.
So am I interpreting correctly that now that the SBC hired liberal corporation Guidepost Solutions to generate this report, now the DOJ is going to perform an investigation in cooperation with SBC leadership?
Further, is it true to say that the investigation is more than likely to target individuals/churches identified in the report (veracity of such notwithstanding), vs the actual leadership in the SBC?
Posted on 8/13/22 at 12:12 pm to the808bass
quote:
Given SBC’s governance it doesn’t make sense.
It would be like investigating McDonald’s because 20 franchise owners were accused of sexual harassment.
The statement is saying the DOJ is investigating the entities involved, the SBC is simply a convention held once a year to make policy decisions, there is nothing there for the DOJ to investigate.
As a side note: the stories that have come out from these entities need to be investigated, the pastors at these locations are worst than Epstein or Weinstein in my opinion. They abused very very young boys and girls (almost all the time younger than either E or W) in the name of God and then used God as a reason to keep it quiet. On top of that preaching to a congregation about purity and basically condemning the person they were abusing to being a half rate human. It's absolutely horrible
ETA: if you want real stories of just a few instances: Baptist News article
This post was edited on 8/13/22 at 4:20 pm
Posted on 8/13/22 at 12:18 pm to imjustafatkid
quote:Let's say a pastor gets arrested and convicted for abusing a child in Arkansas. The SBC leadership is aware of it, but the 47,000 churches in the SBC would not necessarily be aware of it. So the guy goes to another state and gets a job as a pastor. His new congregation has no knowledge of his past deeds. I'm guessing the DOJ is going to look into that to see if any crimes were committed
There never was a list of abusers. One member of the executive committee was compiling articles of people who had already been convicted of crimes, but they weren't investigating abuse or keeping a database of any kind. They're basically saying they're going to investigate why the SBC leadership didn't publish already-published information about abusers.
They're definitely going to look into institutional leaders who hid information about sex abuse. Paige Patterson at SWBTS comes to mind
Posted on 8/13/22 at 12:23 pm to L.A.
quote:
Let's say a pastor gets arrested and convicted for abusing a child in Arkansas. The SBC leadership is aware of it, but the 47,000 churches in the SBC would not necessarily be aware of it. So the guy goes to another state and gets a job as a pastor. His new congregation has no knowledge of his past deeds. I'm guessing the DOJ is going to look into that to see if any crimes were committed
They're definitely going to look into institutional leaders who hid information about sex abuse. Paige Patterson at SWBTS comes to mind
In Birmingham we had something like this happen but with what some would consider a "less crime"
A new pastor started pastoring a pretty big church in the area and after 3 years the church started noticing the books didn't match up - turns out the pastor was embezzling from the church you pay for an addiction with prostitutes... Why he left his last church? Same thing, but the new church had no idea.
P.S. he's in prison now, but how much you want to bet he tries to pastor again once he gets out?
ETA: before anyone ask, I was a part of the Southern Baptist leadership for 12 years of my life - I left the SBC 3 years ago though and will never go back
This post was edited on 8/13/22 at 12:26 pm
Posted on 8/13/22 at 12:26 pm to BaddestAndvari
Yep this isn't a situation like some where we know it's happening but we just don't talk about it. It isn't well known, and bad actors are not tolerated. I knew people in church in the 90's who disapproved of Michael W. Smith because he had done drugs when he was younger, before becoming a Christian. SBC is not full of people who look the other way.
Posted on 8/13/22 at 12:27 pm to VolcanicTiger
I was also a member of the SBC and one our family patriarchs is an active SBC pastor. Churches operate independently, but there is a hierarchical power structure to the SBC as a whole.
Posted on 8/13/22 at 12:28 pm to roadGator
quote:
Everyone hurting children should be punished. What’s wrong with you commies?
Nowhere in my comments do I suggest otherwise.
Posted on 8/13/22 at 12:32 pm to BaddestAndvari
quote:
was a part of the Southern Baptist leadership for 12 years of my life - I left the SBC 3 years ago though and will never go back
What is your take on the leftward drift of SBC leadership?
Posted on 8/13/22 at 12:33 pm to roadGator
quote:
Everyone hurting children should be punished.
The last group I trust is the Justice Department.
I'd trust some random group in Africa first.
Posted on 8/13/22 at 12:34 pm to meeple
quote:
What is your take on the leftward drift of SBC leadership?
It’s not unique to the SBC. It’s everywhere in American culture
Posted on 8/13/22 at 12:36 pm to Revelator
quote:
not unique to the SBC. It’s everywhere in American culture
Yeah which is why they are supposed to be mutually exclusive from each other. SBC should not try to conform to the world for whatever reason.
Posted on 8/13/22 at 12:37 pm to meeple
quote:
What is your take on the leftward drift of SBC leadership?
I think just like most things in the news it is severely overblown to create a response from the Limings
Posted on 8/13/22 at 12:38 pm to hawgfaninc
Everyone here knows how much I hate Pedos. If that is what this is for, GREAT.
Just funny to me that they never go after lefties that they know rape kids. All they do is encourage that behavior.
Just funny to me that they never go after lefties that they know rape kids. All they do is encourage that behavior.
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