re: Southern Baptist ban on women pastors fails in historic vote

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Civilization depends on the threat of violence by men that haven't been feminized by fluoride and soy products in their diet, and emasculated by a massive psyop operation that has weaponized Hollywood, the music industry, network and cable television, sports, AM/FM radio, big tech, social media and the entirety of major "news" networks to form a colossal narrative control apparatus that has cancelled masculinity and redefined it as "homophobic" and "misogynistic" and "evil" and "toxic".

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Added context.

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You were there?

No one is not inviting anyone to attend service. However, leadership within the Church is a different answer all together. If you don't like the scripture, just change it to suit yourself...

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If scripture forbids women teaching men, explain why God used a woman in 2 chronicles to teach a prophecy he gave her to a male king.

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You seem to have a hard time discerning between man and Jesus... Jesus forgave the woman and told her to go and sin no more... Man is not capable of forgiving anyone of sin...

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I didn't reference the forgiving of sin. Nice strawman attempt. As far as how we treat people and do ministry, isn't Jesus not only a spectacular but also the best example to follow?

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Jesus also did not invite her to be a disciple either...

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He did invite them to join him and the 12 during their ministry however, which was extremely controversial at the time. He also didn't seem to mind when Mary sat and learned at his feet with the other disciples instead of prepping the home for dinner as was customary for women to do in Luke 10.

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38 As Jesus and his disciples were on their way, he came to a village where a woman named Martha opened her home to him. 39 She had a sister called Mary, who sat at the Lord’s feet listening to what he said. 40 But Martha was distracted by all the preparations that had to be made. She came to him and asked, “Lord, don’t you care that my sister has left me to do the work by myself? Tell her to help me!”

41 “Martha, Martha,” the Lord answered, “you are worried and upset about many things, 42 but few things are needed—or indeed only one.[f] Mary has chosen what is better, and it will not be taken away from her.”

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You are using modern creations to justify modernizing the pulpit. In no part of the Bible does it mention kids ministry, choirs and worship singing, as part of the church service, etc. The head of the church ran the service. It wasnt turned over to the music director, the worship director, the student pastor or the kids minister

And as far as covering your head in church, moah scripture for you

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Explain to me why the scripture states that God used female prophets to teach men his messages but then states that women are not permitted to teach men later in the new testament. Why did God do something that later Paul says not to?

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No one is saying that God cannot or does not utilize women...

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I didn’t make that argument.

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However, when it comes to Church leadership the scriptures are pretty clear on the matter...

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It also says I do not permit them to teach and yet, in scripture, God has used them to do exactly that. What else do you call explaining a prophecy and what it means to a man? Teaching right? Or are you arguing that it’s only leadership restrictions and women actually are permitted to teach in certain circumstances? If that’s your position, however, please list the scriptures where this distinction is made.


How do you make the distinction over what and whom women are to teach if the Paul says explicitly that they are not to teach?

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I have a novel idea, if you don't like the SBC not allowing women to be pastors, find a denomination that does so...

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It’s not a make or break issue to me. I just think it’s a debatable secondary issue to plant a flag in the ground over. It’s not a question of the gospel.

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As for Mary learning at Jesus' feet, that has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion...

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Culturally it does.

I meant in terms of the Jewish culture at the time and what her sitting at his feet insinuated. Not our culture.



Please answer these simple questions.


1) are women permitted to teach?

2) are women permitted to lead?

3) are women permitted to teach certain audiences?

4) are women permitted to lead certain audiences?

5) how do you determine the difference with scripture evidence?

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never said he had no choice but to utilize a woman.

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So why did he?

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I look to Christ in his approach to people and circumstances he encountered here.

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All of the Scriptures are God-breathed, not just the red letters. All of the Bible comes from the same divine author and what God revealed to us through Christ He also upholds through the words of the Apostles recorded for us in the New Testament.

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Christ healed on the sabbath, he cleansed lepers, he spoke to women, etc etc. He "broke" many of the "rules" because he didn't come to heap rules on us, he came to free us.

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Christ freed us from the bondage of the law, but He didn't come to remove the obligation for obedience for those whom He died to save. Christ said to love God and to love your neighbor was merely a summary of the 10 commandments. He said that if we love Him, we will obey His commandments. He said that a true branch will bear fruit (good works according to the moral law).

The "rules" Jesus broke were man-made rules, not holy commandments that reflect God's character. I hope you aren't talking about antinomianism, because the law is good, it just cannot save.

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How often did Christ rebuke the religious leaders for their arrogance and anger with others who followed God a bit differently than they did? 2000 years later, we're still doing that, just look at this thread.

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Again, Jesus didn't rebuke the religious leaders simply because they were angry with people who did things "a bit differently than they did", but Jesus held those leaders accountable to the standard of the Word of God. The leaders were not rebuked because they taught obedience to the law, but because they were hypocrites: teaching obedience while they did everything they could to exempt themselves or only obeyed for appearances rather than due to a desire to honor the Lord.

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One issue of difference and people have attacked me with all kinds of names. Is that the message Christ brought?

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Christians are to speak the truth in love. Unfortunately, the anonymity of the internet provides a great temptation for people to speaking unlovingly towards others. I'm guilty of this as well. Christians should repent to each other (and to non-Christians whom we sin against) and forgive each other, seeking to be unified in the Lord. With that said, Christians have an obligation to be faithful to Christ by seeking to be conformed to His image, being perfect as He is perfect. We won't be perfect this side of Heaven, but sanctification is a life-long endeavor that happens by the Spirit working in us as we participate in the means of grace, including by faithfully attending the public worship of God, hearing the Word preached faithfully regularly, being in prayer, and participating in the sacraments that Christ gave His Church on top of fellowshipping with other Christians, building each other up in grace.

Again, Christians are to be governed by the entire Word of God, not looking to the traditions of men but the commandments of God.

There are many examples of women being prophets, disciples, apostles and missionaries and even preaching throughout the Bible.

Apparently some friction occurred between the men and women in the Corinth church.

Paul's instructions for the church in Corinth was related to the scriptural teaching that the man is head of the household just as Jesus is head of the church. This was being applied by Paul in the context of families worshipping together as a congregation in Corinth.

The place of leadership in the marriage is the man's. Men were probably objecting to the idea of women teaching men in their communal worship services and wanted clarification from Paul.

(Historical Contex)

In the early church women and men were understood to be equally inspired by the Holy Spirit and filled with His discernment, and gifts to witness and teach, but the marriage relationship required that the man be placed forward in leadership and the woman keep her questions, knowledge, or comments for private counsel with her husband. The Man would be required to be open to her counsel and teaching in private and diligent in teaching her as well so they lived as equals in their marriage. Women and men who were unmarried would be led by married members of the same sex in the same way.

(Modern Context)

Some Baptist churches have no one to assume the pastor position and can't afford to pay someone enough to get them to commit to real long term leadership. If there are no men called to preach and teach in that congregation, but there are women knowledgeable in scripture and gifted with teaching then allowing a woman to preach is logical and not a problem. A woman leading a church as a pastor or preaching or teaching to a mixed crowd of married men and women has the same inspiration and witness as any man, however the men, and especially her husband, if he is a member, has the prerogative to allow her to occupy that position of leadership or not.

A woman has the same responsibility and requirements as a man in the position of preacher/teacher that scripture lays out, (married, undivorced, without moral reproach, etc.), but if a suitable man is sent by God to lead the congregation, then a woman who is truly scripturally inspired would humbly step back into her role as a Christian wife.

Unfortunately, this is not the case for most situations where a Baptist church has a woman pastor. In my experience many of these women reject God's delineated role for them in their marriage and their church. They would be apoplectic at the thought of stepping back for a man to assume their role. This is evidence against them and proof that the spirit that inspires them is not the Holy Spirit.

That is the crucial element.

Whoever is in a position of leadership in a church has to be completely submitted to God's will. We all fall short, so what I mean by submitted is to not be willfully opposed to any of God's teachings.


A woman preaching in the role of missionary or evangelist is not the same situation as in Corinth. It may occur in a church setting, but the congregation is not the local church family made up of married couples in that community, but is a group of random individuals that has gathered together specifically to hear her message. What she teaches is to be qualified through scripture by the individual that is listening just as when a man preaches in this role.

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The thing is.... If you search the whole bible for evidence of one little thing that you want to believe or change - [with a slanted mind] you can find that and you can corrupt a church with that while you ignore clear, plain language instructions that are contrary to what you want to believe or change. It has happened in every denomination.

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and it's not actually a sin for a woman to teach, meaning there was nothing wrong with Huldah prophesying to King Josiah.

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What is sin? Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law, for sin is the transgression of the law.

The servant seeks to not anger his master, the son seeks to please his father.

But now after ye have known God, or rather are known by God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements unto which ye desire again to be in bondage?