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re: So why did the US have such an INITIAL testing failure, exactly?

Posted on 3/12/20 at 1:30 pm to
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
475815 posts
Posted on 3/12/20 at 1:30 pm to
quote:

Said the affect of Trump's presidency was felt worldwide to where it led to markets like the ones in Wuhan


Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
475815 posts
Posted on 3/12/20 at 1:31 pm to
quote:

Well it was just a dem hoax until this week

the manufactured panic-reaction is still a DEM hoax
Posted by BlackHelicopterPilot
Top secret lab
Member since Feb 2004
52841 posts
Posted on 3/12/20 at 1:31 pm to
quote:

Well it was just a dem hoax until this week



reductio ad absurdum is pathetic
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
95483 posts
Posted on 3/12/20 at 1:32 pm to
quote:

last night was an inflection point that disagrees fully with this point. it's only gotten worse today


It's always darkest before the dawn. As the thousands (10s, probably, in short order) of confirmed cases add up and the dead bodies don't? By Memorial Day we will be (mostly) back to business.

I'll eat crow if I'm wrong, but I would rather err on the side of cautious optimism than panic. Panic is not a combat multiplier. Calmness at the top is.
This post was edited on 3/12/20 at 1:33 pm
Posted by Tiguar
Montana
Member since Mar 2012
33131 posts
Posted on 3/12/20 at 1:32 pm to
technically, reductio ad absurdum is a technique used to expose a fallacy

LINK

quote:

A mode of argumentation or a form of argument in which a proposition is disproven by following its implications logically to an absurd conclusion. Arguments that use universals such as, “always”, “never”, “everyone”, “nobody”, etc., are prone to being reduced to absurd conclusions. The fallacy is in the argument that could be reduced to absurdity -- so in essence, reductio ad absurdum is a technique to expose the fallacy.
Posted by crewdepoo
Hogwarts
Member since Jan 2015
11001 posts
Posted on 3/12/20 at 1:33 pm to
CDC was under funded
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
475815 posts
Posted on 3/12/20 at 1:34 pm to
quote:

CDC was under funded

they couldn't afford to make a couple thousand tests?

stop it
Posted by Tiguar
Montana
Member since Mar 2012
33131 posts
Posted on 3/12/20 at 1:34 pm to
quote:

CDC was under funded


MOAR MONEY
Posted by texashorn
Member since May 2008
13122 posts
Posted on 3/12/20 at 1:34 pm to
The “dem hoax” was in reference to the President’s responsive actions, which you are questioning in this thread. The buck stops in the White House.
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
95483 posts
Posted on 3/12/20 at 1:34 pm to
quote:

CDC was under funded


Compared to what? When? During what time period?


This is yet ANOTHER fricking hoax in this weaponized media frenzy.
Posted by RobbBobb
Member since Feb 2007
34118 posts
Posted on 3/12/20 at 1:35 pm to
Its kinda hard to have a bioengineered virus test kit at hand, doncha think?

Even China admits that its bioengineered. They are now blaming the US Army for releasing it
Posted by Scruffy
Kansas City
Member since Jul 2011
77166 posts
Posted on 3/12/20 at 1:35 pm to
quote:

CDC was under funded
False.

CDC is exactly as funded as it has been every single year, except for the Ebola year where it was given $1 billion.



The only argument you could make is that we should have extended emergency funding into perpetuity.
This post was edited on 3/12/20 at 1:37 pm
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
475815 posts
Posted on 3/12/20 at 1:35 pm to
quote:

By Memorial Day we will be (mostly) back to business.

we will be fricked if that happens

quote:

but I would rather err on the side of cautious optimism than panic. P

i'm not panicking. this bug isn't near the threat that people are making it out to be. if you're not in a few select cohorts then there is basically 0 to worry about

but we're shutting down the country right now. and you're proposing it will be almost 2 months until it's back
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
475815 posts
Posted on 3/12/20 at 1:36 pm to
quote:

Its kinda hard to have a bioengineered virus test kit at hand, doncha think?

other countries didn't have issues. HK, Singaopore, Japan, SK, etc. were much quicker with their initial testing
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
475815 posts
Posted on 3/12/20 at 1:37 pm to
quote:

The “dem hoax” was in reference to the President’s responsive actions

which ones, specifically?

quote:

which you are questioning in this thread

no. I'm glad Donald Trump wasn't making direct decisions for the CDC

quote:

The buck stops in the White House.

if we are to ignore what bureaucracy looks like and want a dictator, then sure
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
138463 posts
Posted on 3/12/20 at 1:38 pm to
This is actually a decent article by the WashPo.
Aside from the obligatory Obama loyalist quote “To the extent that there’s someone to blame here, the blame is on poor, chaotic management from the White House and failure to acknowledge the big picture,” it is accurate.
quote:



What went wrong with the coronavirus tests in the U.S.
By Carolyn Y. Johnson and Laurie McGinley
March 7, 2020


... Production is ramping up, but tests — and the labs and equipment necessary to run them — are still very limited. Even where test kits are available, many states are following strict criteria for who should be tested to avoid overwhelming their labs.

Interviews with a dozen laboratory experts and government health officials reveal a six-week series of glitches, missed opportunities and delays that contributed to the shortage.

“They’ve simply lost time they can’t make up. You can’t get back six weeks of blindness,” said Jeremy Konyndyk, who oversaw the international response to Ebola during the Obama administration and is a senior policy fellow at the Center for Global Development.
...

The problems started in early February, at a CDC laboratory in Atlanta.

A technical manufacturing problem, along with an initial decision to test only a narrow set of people and delays in expanding testing to other labs, gave the virus a head start to spread undetected — and helped perpetuate a false sense of security that leaves the United States dangerously behind.

Nineteen people are dead, and there are more than 300 known cases of the novel coronavirus in the United States and undoubtedly many more cases that have not been detected.
...

The traditional U.S. strategy for devising new diagnostic tests starts with the CDC. That is supposed to ensure new tests are accurate and reliable, but it also meant that other parallel approaches were not aggressively pursued.

Scott Gottlieb, former Food and Drug Administration commissioner in the Trump administration, said, “The key in a crisis like this is to take an all-of-the-above approach, whether we’re dealing with diagnostics or therapeutics.” That responsibility, he said, was up to other parts of the administration, such as the Department of Health and Human Services or the FDA.
...

“Since CDC and FDA haven’t authorized public health or hospital labs to run the tests, right now #CDC is the only place that can. So, screening has to be rationed,” Gottlieb tweeted on Feb. 2.

The CDC manufactured kits, and on Feb. 6 and 7, 90 test kits were shipped to the public health labs. Some labs began to have trouble with the test. On Feb. 12, the CDC announced the test was providing inconclusive results in some laboratories. The problem was in one of the three components of the test.

It involved a part of the third component intended to be a backstop — a double-check so that when labs get a negative result, they can trust it. A federal official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because there is an ongoing investigation, said the problem may have been a design flaw or contamination in a CDC lab when the tests were being produced.

Some critics have questioned why the CDC didn’t switch to tests being used by other countries as soon as the problems arose, but the official said it would have taken longer to apply for a new authorization from the FDA and validate and manufacture a new test than it would to fix a test they knew worked in their own lab.
...

But epidemiologists advising the CDC already had been debating when to begin broader testing to see if the virus was circulating in the community, said Jeffrey Engel, executive director of the Council of State and Territorial Epidemiologists. Narrow testing basically guaranteed that the United States would remain unaware of whether the virus was already circulating among people who thought they had a cold or the flu.

On Feb. 13, HHS Secretary Alex Azar testified before Congress that a limited five-city pilot would begin to add coronavirus to the usual flu surveillance system to see whether “there is broader spread than we have been able to detect so far.” But the plan was delayed because coronavirus tests weren’t available.

Academic hospitals, which have laboratories that routinely develop tests to use on their patients, began to get increasingly anxious about the nation being dependent on the CDC lab. They considered pursuing FDA approval for their tests but complained they didn’t have the resources or expertise — or access to crucial materials such as the virus itself — for the complicated application process required during a public health emergency.

“When the CDC test was delayed, then the cases started appearing outside of China, there should have been a quicker response to get diagnostic testing going” by easing regulations on hospital labs, said Melissa Miller, director of the clinical molecular microbiology laboratory at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill School of Medicine.
...

As days went by, public health labs became increasingly desperate and on Feb. 25 requested special permission from the FDA to develop their own tests. The agency accepted the request. But along with the CDC, it also found a workaround, allowing a partial CDC test to be used. New test kits began to be sent out in the following days, with two of the three original components.

Almost as soon as testing capabilities came online, labs found cases of coronavirus. A week ago, a person in Oregon who had been sick since Feb. 19 tested positive — hours after state officials got their CDC test up and running. In Washington state, one of the cases identified was a teenager who went to the doctor with ordinary flu symptoms; his swab was submitted through surveillance testing that was only possible after the testing capabilities came online.

On Feb. 29, the FDA finally announced a new policy to make it easier for hospital laboratories to develop their own tests. “This outbreak and our response is dynamic and evolving,” said Stephanie Caccomo, a spokeswoman for the FDA. “As the situation changes, we are being flexible as we execute policies intended to protect public health.”

“Most laboratories were anticipating a more rigorous FDA stance, and had not been leaning forward for tests that could have been made more useful,” a federal health official said. “We were working under the rubric and framework they set in place, and had they known things could be more flexible,” labs might have moved forward faster.

LINK
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
95483 posts
Posted on 3/12/20 at 1:38 pm to
quote:

but we're shutting down the country right now. and you're proposing it will be almost 2 months until it's back


I apologize if that was misinterpreted - I mean, the crisis will be immediately in the rearview window at that point. Still talked about, but no longer pressing.

The acute crisis we're in right now? With everything cancelled and folks running around like Chicken Little? I think that will start to subside in 2 to 3 weeks. I can't see how it won't last that long now.

The pin has been pulled. Americans panic really fricking easily, Jake. You know that by now.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
475815 posts
Posted on 3/12/20 at 1:39 pm to
quote:

The traditional U.S. strategy for devising new diagnostic tests starts with the CDC. That is supposed to ensure new tests are accurate and reliable


quote:

A technical manufacturing problem, along with an initial decision to test only a narrow set of people and delays in expanding testing to other labs, gave the virus a head start to spread undetected — and helped perpetuate a false sense of security that leaves the United States dangerously behind.

nice
Posted by texashorn
Member since May 2008
13122 posts
Posted on 3/12/20 at 1:40 pm to
Ask yourself this. If the lack of private test development was blamed on a rule that Obama supposedly put in place, why did it take so long to change this rule?

And if the argument is that it really didn’t cost any time, then why blame the supposed rule (and Obama)?

If Trump can blame Obama, WE can blame Trump.
This post was edited on 3/12/20 at 1:42 pm
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