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Message

re: SCOTUS to decide on taking appeal of birthright citizenship

Posted on 11/24/25 at 8:34 am to
Posted by cajunandy
New Orleans
Member since Nov 2015
893 posts
Posted on 11/24/25 at 8:34 am to
No decision today it rescheduled for the next conference.
Posted by retired_tiger
Member since Oct 2025
546 posts
Posted on 11/24/25 at 8:43 am to
Nor should they. Clearly established law. But if they do decide to take it up, trump won't be happy with the decision.

The vast majority of Americans will, however.
Posted by cajunandy
New Orleans
Member since Nov 2015
893 posts
Posted on 11/24/25 at 8:43 am to
quote:

Looking forward to a 9-0 decision against trump on this one.


You would think that since its such a slam dunk SCOTUS would deny Cert on the first conference. SCOTUS did not deny Cert, rather it will reschedule it for the next conference.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
476872 posts
Posted on 11/24/25 at 8:47 am to
Which could also be Thomas and Alito thinking they can turn a couple others to their side. I don't think it will be 9-0, especially with how Thomas has become so partisan and less about his textualist roots.
Posted by udtiger
Over your left shoulder
Member since Nov 2006
115439 posts
Posted on 11/24/25 at 8:50 am to
This is a matter for which the SCOTUS should issue an opinion.

Other than a footnote in Plyler v. Doe, there's been no statement on this issue in over 100 years (and that ruling was based on very different facts)
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
476872 posts
Posted on 11/24/25 at 8:52 am to
quote:

Other than a footnote in Plyler v. Doe, there's been no statement on this issue in over 100 years


WKA did a pretty in-depth textual-historical analysis. I don't know why a new statement is necessary (assuming no direct reversal).

WKA literally covers all the bases.
This post was edited on 11/24/25 at 8:53 am
Posted by Wednesday
Member since Aug 2017
17298 posts
Posted on 11/24/25 at 8:53 am to
This is yet another thing that pisses me off about Congressional Republicans.

They should have ended birthright citizenship statutorily, along with chain migration.

But they didn’t.

Now they’ve, per usual, delegated their legislative authority to the executive and the SCOTUS. And once the SCOTUS weighs in, not only can they not be fired if they make the wrong decision - or legislate from the bench - which when combined with lifetime appointments and stare decisis is lethal to a republic - we are stuck with a policy decision that is impossible to edit, remove or improve (see e.g. frick you Roberts for sticking us with Obamacare bc you may cause a scene). . .

This should have been handled legislatively, but it can’t and won’t be bc of the filibuster. And when y'all hate the result, just remember that Bush adjacent wafflers, ACB, Kav and Roberta, together with the Wise Latina and Affirmative Action Jackson - outnumber Thomas, Alito and Gorsuch. Roberts will frick this up with some concurring opinion that will be impossible to put into practice, but will stymie legislation to actually fix this problem and will again, allow him to temporarily avoid a scene.

I don’t necessarily believe Roberts is compromised- but I do think he is a gigantic gaping pussy who decides what he thinks the law should be, instead of interpreting what the law is.
This post was edited on 11/24/25 at 8:56 am
Posted by cajunandy
New Orleans
Member since Nov 2015
893 posts
Posted on 11/24/25 at 8:54 am to
Or it could be that have the vote but want to be sure there are no procedural defects that they are unaware of. It is believed by court observers that even though the votes are there to grant cert, Roberts will hold it over for the next conference so the law clerks can go though the record to make sure there are no procedural defects that would prevent the court from ruling. Roberts frequently does this not just this case.

Or one of the Justice wants to file a dissent on the denial of Cert.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
476872 posts
Posted on 11/24/25 at 8:56 am to
quote:

They should have ended birthright citizenship statutorily

So Congress can usurp the Constitution?

That's not how our system works.

Posted by udtiger
Over your left shoulder
Member since Nov 2006
115439 posts
Posted on 11/24/25 at 8:58 am to
quote:

quote:
Other than a footnote in Plyler v. Doe, there's been no statement on this issue in over 100 years


WKA did a pretty in-depth textual-historical analysis. I don't know why a new statement is necessary (assuming no direct reversal).

WKA literally covers all the bases.


Different factual basis.

Almost 140 years old.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
476872 posts
Posted on 11/24/25 at 9:02 am to
quote:

Different factual basis.

Almost 140 years old.

Again, their analysis still covers all the bases.

There are 3 groups not "subject to the jurisdiction" of the US

1. Diplomats (the only one that still applies)

2. Indians (based on prior precedent, which was fixed via Congress years later so not applicable)

3. People born under hostile occupation of the US by a foreign state. Theoretically could happen in the future but hasn't since the War of 1812.

Even the arguments focusing on status presuppose Congress can usurp the Constitution (by creating a statutory class that somehow doesn't have to follow the rules laid out by the USSC), which isn't how our system works. Twisting a ruling to permit this power by Congress would be quite the quagmire moving forward. I can't imagine they'd be so partisan they would be that dumb.
Posted by CDawson
Louisiana
Member since Dec 2017
20276 posts
Posted on 11/24/25 at 9:02 am to
quote:

family separation


Always enjoy this argument.

Imagine I get pulled over for a DUI, but they let me go because my 5 year old daughter is with me and we can’t be separated.

Or I rob a bank but can’t go to jail because I’d be separated from my 7 year old.

Just more and more mental gymnastics from the filth.
Posted by cajunandy
New Orleans
Member since Nov 2015
893 posts
Posted on 11/24/25 at 9:04 am to
quote:

So Congress can usurp the Constitution?



Not really.
Section 5 of the 14th Amendment states
quote:

The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

Nothing to prevent the congress from passing a law defining "jurisdiction in such a manner that would end birthright citizenship.

Side note SCOTUS used section 5 to prevent Colorado and other states from keeping Trump off the ballad under Section 3.
Posted by Wednesday
Member since Aug 2017
17298 posts
Posted on 11/24/25 at 9:05 am to
Congress should define what makes a naturalized citizen.

The SCOTUS should whether that definition conflicts with the Constitution.

Despite the footnote that makes you so excited, SCOTUS has never addressed whether the children of random foreigners who came into the country 5 minutes before giving birth are citizens.

There is no legislation addressing it.

It is extra constitutional for the Supreme Court to be setting immigration policy, especially now that a bunch of law students write law review articles instead of deciding the cases before the justices. And you know it. Or at least you should
Posted by Indefatigable
Member since Jan 2019
37331 posts
Posted on 11/24/25 at 9:06 am to
quote:

Nor should they. Clearly established law. But if they do decide to take it up, trump won't be happy with the decision. The vast majority of Americans will, however.

I don’t like it as a matter of policy but I agree with you on the law.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
476872 posts
Posted on 11/24/25 at 9:07 am to
quote:

Nothing to prevent the congress from passing a law defining "jurisdiction in such a manner that would end birthright citizenship.

That would be giving Congress the power to usurp the Constitution.

quote:

Side note SCOTUS used section 5 to prevent Colorado and other states from keeping Trump off the ballad under Section 3.

Only because Congress hadn't acted (in some time). That statutory authority doesn't get to have the power to interpret the Constitution. That's the USSC's role.

The statutes must fall within the established text/interpretation of the Constitution at all times. Congress doesn't get to make that determination.

That's why all the Voting Rights Act provisions keep falling, for a recent example.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
476872 posts
Posted on 11/24/25 at 9:09 am to
quote:

Congress should define what makes a naturalized citizen.


They already do that via other Constitutional authority.

Wong Kim Arks specifically discusses that, FYI.

That has nothing to do with the 14A, though.

quote:

SCOTUS has never addressed whether the children of random foreigners who came into the country 5 minutes before giving birth are citizens.

Well unless WKA is going to be effectively reversed, which of the 3 categories of excluded persons discussed at length in WKA would you argue they fall under?

quote:

It is extra constitutional for the Supreme Court to be setting immigration policy,

This is not immigration policy. Your framing is misleading.

Posted by HubbaBubba
North of DFW, TX
Member since Oct 2010
51881 posts
Posted on 11/24/25 at 9:16 am to
quote:

It's been ruled that way at every step and the Supremes may not even take the case up
Roe was "settled law". Until it wasn't.

Oops.

So, while I think what I wish for has a snowball's chance in hell, at least Trump is trying, unlike others before him and there is probably a slight chance they'll take it up.

If they do, whoo boy, it's gonna' be fireworks!
Posted by I20goon
about 7mi down a dirt road
Member since Aug 2013
19829 posts
Posted on 11/24/25 at 9:23 am to
Unfortunately, because of the language, this is probably a non-starter.

However, SCOTUS needs to address it eliminate the debate and settle it, at least for a couple of decades.
Posted by TigerAxeOK
Where I lay my head is home.
Member since Dec 2016
38006 posts
Posted on 11/24/25 at 9:24 am to
quote:

Now, federal courts have blocked that order as unconstitutional, citing more than a century of legal precedent

As we've seen so many times before, "precedent" doesn't define what is or is not Constitutionally permissible.

When it is clear that border jumpers are timing illegal entry to use their unborn children as "anchor babies" to gain permanent citizenship, circumventing the laws on the book for legal entrance, something must be done to issue a correction.

In this particular scenario, the constitution itself acts as an arbiter of fate with a big loophole for law-breakers if this remains uncontested. I say, one way or another, this topic needs to be clearly defined. From what little i know, I think Trump's EO will be stricken down by SCOTUS, right or wrong. But, perhaps there is some nuance or specific nomenclature and verbiage that will back him up.
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