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re: Scott Ritter on Ukraine and Finland joining NATO
Posted on 5/12/22 at 3:41 pm to AggieHank86
Posted on 5/12/22 at 3:41 pm to AggieHank86
quote:phone
I am guessing that this was dictated stream-of-consciousness and not proofed. Seldom have I seen so many good points presented with such atrocious grammar. The two don't normally go together like this.
0
Posted on 5/12/22 at 3:58 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
You should understand their viewpoint before you make such definitive statements.
What exactly have you seen from Russia that makes NATO membership such a priority for the national defense of Finland? Finland is not Ukraine and anyone comparing the two shouldn’t be taken seriously.
You should quit projecting your own desires in hopes you can dunk on Russia later if Finland joins NATO.
Posted on 5/12/22 at 4:00 pm to TigerOnTheMountain
quote:apparently Finland thinks that.
What exactly have you seen from Russia that makes NATO membership such a priority for the national defense of Finland?
Posted on 5/12/22 at 4:02 pm to wutangfinancial
quote:and I guess Russians eat the oil they are not selling
This will age well as the months go on and there’s mounting political pressures to fund other sources of energy. If concessions aren’t made by winter the flip of a switch could put Europe into the dark ages literally and figuratively. Then we’re all competing for a smaller oil market.
Posted on 5/12/22 at 4:02 pm to TigerOnTheMountain
quote:
What exactly have you seen from Russia that makes NATO membership such a priority for the national defense of Finland?
You should ask the Finns.
quote:
You should quit projecting your own desires in hopes you can dunk on Russia later if Finland joins NATO.
I'm literally referring to a report commissioned by the Finnish government in 2016. What the frick are you talking about?
Posted on 5/12/22 at 4:10 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
So in your mind, since the United States has been a bad actor in the past, Finland should not be allowed to exercise its own sovereign authority to join a military alliance?
Or we could just tell them they aren't welcome
Posted on 5/12/22 at 4:12 pm to DallasTiger11
And we would do that why?
Because Russia doesn’t want them to join?
Because Russia doesn’t want them to join?
Posted on 5/12/22 at 4:14 pm to DallasTiger11
quote:
Or we could just tell them they aren't welcome
Why would NATO do that, as a matter of strategy?
Posted on 5/12/22 at 4:38 pm to narddogg81
Correct. As it appreciates in value while the West scrambles to keep the lights on. The rest of the East will gladly accept their cheaper crude while Brent and WTI skyrocket. It’s not only probable but the harder we dig in to extend this, it becomes more likely.
Posted on 5/12/22 at 4:42 pm to JAGuyHeh
Russia should have no problem with Finland joining NATO. None at all. 
Posted on 5/12/22 at 5:04 pm to JAGuyHeh
RT mouthpiece. Bought and paid for.
Posted on 5/12/22 at 5:42 pm to AggieHank86
It means we are hypocrites.
I forgot to add Cuba where we put up an embargo and also had a failed invasion
I forgot to add Cuba where we put up an embargo and also had a failed invasion
Posted on 5/12/22 at 5:50 pm to LSUBadger
quote:
It means we are hypocrites.
By that measure, every country is, as there are plenty of examples where you can see countries acting hypocritically when their interests are on the line. It doesn't mean much in a geopolitical sense. In an anarchic world (the key premise of any realist approach to geopolitics), survival is all that matters, not morality.
Posted on 5/12/22 at 5:50 pm to Indefatigable
In my opinion, a nation like the USA which has enforced the Monroe Doctrine for over 200 years to control the politics and economies of the Western Hemisphere is now against subjugating smaller neighbors?
That seems incredibly hypocritical. Suddenly we are opposed to armed intervention to further our interests? That is a pretty recent transformation. One I applaud. But let’s be serious. The US has been stirring up shite in Ukraine for decades. We didn’t reduce the possibility of Putin attacking. We increased the odds. Ole Jello Head should not have made a public statement about Ukraine eventually joining NATO. In November 2021.
Fair or not. Righteous or not. That act lit the fire that we see now in this ridiculous proxy war
That seems incredibly hypocritical. Suddenly we are opposed to armed intervention to further our interests? That is a pretty recent transformation. One I applaud. But let’s be serious. The US has been stirring up shite in Ukraine for decades. We didn’t reduce the possibility of Putin attacking. We increased the odds. Ole Jello Head should not have made a public statement about Ukraine eventually joining NATO. In November 2021.
Fair or not. Righteous or not. That act lit the fire that we see now in this ridiculous proxy war
Posted on 5/12/22 at 5:51 pm to LSUBadger
quote:
We didn’t reduce the possibility of Putin attacking. We increased the odds. Ole Jello Head should not have made a public statement about Ukraine eventually joining NATO. In November 2021.
This is nonsense. Do you understand why?
Posted on 5/12/22 at 6:14 pm to crazy4lsu
Exactly. The moral high horse of a country that has been engaged in more armed conflicts than any other nation on Earth the past 75 years is bizarre.
Half the world is not cool with the New World Order and we need to accept that reality.
Half the world is not cool with the New World Order and we need to accept that reality.
Posted on 5/12/22 at 6:15 pm to LSUBadger
quote:
Exactly. The moral high horse of a country that has been engaged in more armed conflicts than any other nation on Earth the past 75 years is bizarre.
It really isn't all that bizarre.
quote:
Half the world is not cool with the New World Order and we need to accept that reality.
Oh
Posted on 5/12/22 at 6:21 pm to LSUBadger
quote:
Enlighten me
Because Russia extraterritorial adventures since 2007 have been based on Russian fears of some event playing out, not that event actually playing out. The key metric always has been what Russia has been afraid of, not what its actual threats are, which are primarily social, but manifest themselves in the military as well. Those fears are stoked internally by how the Russian elite views the world, and those views predate NATO by a long time. In other words, Russia has long competed with other imperial powers for control to the Eastern European Plain, and that will always factor into its decision-making, even as other former powers in the region have integrated in various ways, which heightens Russian fears rather than showing them their view is somewhat outdated.
Posted on 5/12/22 at 6:26 pm to crazy4lsu
You think Russia, India, China, Brazil etc are comfortable with a system where the US and the EU want to impose their current ideals on the rest of the world?
That is over half the worlds population right there
About 20 years ago I was In China on business. The guy I was visiting was a very sharp guy in his 70’s. Both his father and him graduated from the University of Chicago. They moved to Taiwan when Mao took over. He had lived all over the world.
He told me that people in the West assume that people everywhere share their beliefs. In fact they do not. The freedoms we want are not that important to them. They are more concerned with security. They don’t want people from the village down the road coming down to kill them. That is why they are largely content with strongmen running their countries.
Much of the world sees things this way. We need to recognize this and understand that imposing our “morals” on the rest of the world is not necessarily going to be received well. The unintended consequences of this war will be very interesting
That is over half the worlds population right there
About 20 years ago I was In China on business. The guy I was visiting was a very sharp guy in his 70’s. Both his father and him graduated from the University of Chicago. They moved to Taiwan when Mao took over. He had lived all over the world.
He told me that people in the West assume that people everywhere share their beliefs. In fact they do not. The freedoms we want are not that important to them. They are more concerned with security. They don’t want people from the village down the road coming down to kill them. That is why they are largely content with strongmen running their countries.
Much of the world sees things this way. We need to recognize this and understand that imposing our “morals” on the rest of the world is not necessarily going to be received well. The unintended consequences of this war will be very interesting
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