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Message
re: Scott Ritter on Ukraine and Finland joining NATO
Posted on 5/12/22 at 3:08 pm to Indefatigable
Posted on 5/12/22 at 3:08 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
It is a land and power grab by Moscow. Nothing more
This is a load of shite. Russia is putting a stop to the poison the US is spreading. Russia walked right into our trap. We are responsible for everything happening there
This post was edited on 5/12/22 at 3:09 pm
0
Posted on 5/12/22 at 3:08 pm to squid_hunt
quote:
I think if Putin was going to invade someone he woild have told us by now, don't you think?
No, we would have some type of evidence instead of nothing but mindless propaganda.
Posted on 5/12/22 at 3:12 pm to JAGuyHeh
Finland ready for some free defense from sugar daddy america.
Posted on 5/12/22 at 3:15 pm to JAGuyHeh
quote:
There is no need to provoke Russia. Russia has announced it wants Ukraine and Finland as well as other states to be neutral. Why is this bad?
Of course a sovereign state dictating the foreign policy terms to another sovereign state is bad. Are you retarded?
Posted on 5/12/22 at 3:17 pm to 1999
Iraq
Afghanistan
Vietnam
Korea
Panama
Grenada
All counties that the US has invaded one way or another since WW2. With a huge percentage of their population not being very enthusiastic about the action.
Yet the sanctity of Ukraine from an aggressor nation is unassailable. Some of you need to re read your history.
Posted on 5/12/22 at 3:18 pm to squid_hunt
quote:
Again, isn't that for Finland to decide? "Trust me." is not a strong foreign policy position.
Making up threats to justify escalating this war is also not a strong foreign policy position, but it's been our foreign policy position in ever war we've been involved with.
Posted on 5/12/22 at 3:19 pm to Jack Carter
quote:
Is that what Russia is going to do next? Right after Ukraine he's going to take Finland?
If his inner circle is dominated by people who believe the Heartland Theory, he will almost certainly want to dictate the security arrangement of border states.
Posted on 5/12/22 at 3:20 pm to Jack Carter
quote:
Making up threats to justify escalating this war is also not a strong foreign policy position, but it's been our foreign policy position in ever war we've been involved with.
You think Finland is making up threats?
Posted on 5/12/22 at 3:21 pm to LSUBadger
quote:
All counties that the US has invaded one way or another since WW2. With a huge percentage of their population not being very enthusiastic about the action.
None of that has any bearing on whether or not Finland decides to join NATO.
Nothing the United States has ever done justifies Russia's invasion. Our shitty behavior does not legitimize theirs.
quote:
Some of you need to re read your history.
So in your mind, since the United States has been a bad actor in the past, Finland should not be allowed to exercise its own sovereign authority to join a military alliance?
And because the United States has been a bad actor in the past that Russia's invasion is legitimate?
That is absurd.
Posted on 5/12/22 at 3:22 pm to Jack Carter
quote:
Making up threats to justify escalating this war is also not a strong foreign policy position, but it's been our foreign policy position in ever war we've been involved with.
There doesn't have to be a threat. Finland could collectively wake up and decide to join NATO just because. Faulty premise is faulty.
Posted on 5/12/22 at 3:22 pm to AggieHank86
It’s actually more than that now as they just recently dedicated an additional 2.2 billion to defense spending. Which is sort of my point. They already have defense agreements in place and are committed to increasing defense spending. They really don’t have a need for NATO and if certain polls are to be believed, membership remains unpopular amongst the Finnish people.
Posted on 5/12/22 at 3:24 pm to TigerOnTheMountain
quote:
if certain polls are to be believed, membership remains unpopular amongst the Finnish people.
Link to these polls? Because Bloomberg has a poll from 5/9 that shows 76% support for joining NATO amongst Finns, and that number has jumped 20-30% since the Russian invasion of Ukraine began.
Posted on 5/12/22 at 3:25 pm to Jack Carter
quote:
Making up threats to justify escalating this war is also not a strong foreign policy position, but it's been our foreign policy position in ever war we've been involved with.
And I believe we should not do that, but what does that have to do with Finland?
This post was edited on 5/12/22 at 3:26 pm
Posted on 5/12/22 at 3:26 pm to LSUBadger
quote:Three fully justifiable and three questionable.
All counties that the US has invaded one way or another
But let's assume that the US had no business engaging in military intervention in any of those six instances. Would our "wrong" combine with Russia's "wrong," to make a great big "right?"
Posted on 5/12/22 at 3:27 pm to Indefatigable
I’ll try to find it again. It was from Finnish media.
Posted on 5/12/22 at 3:29 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
From our perspective, the chance of a NATO invasion of Russia through the Baltic Republics is essentially "zero," but have no doubt that the Russian paranoia places a MUCH greater likelihood on such an invasion. They have been gnawing their rhetorical fingernails for twenty years or more.
Controlling the exit and entry points to the Eastern European Plain has always been an important strategic element for Eastern European geopolitics. You could definitely accuse Russia of an 18th century mindset, as the EU has shown the way to smooth out geopolitical issues is by economic integration, not military strength. Russia could integrate with the rest of Europe, but the Russian ruling elite have their own designs.
Posted on 5/12/22 at 3:32 pm to TigerOnTheMountain
quote:You are looking at old polls. Everything I have seen in 2022 favors NATO.
if certain polls are to be believed, membership remains unpopular amongst the Finnish people.
quote:Russia's GDP is 7x that of Finland. If the Russian bear is hungry, that 2% will not last long, standing without strong allies.
just recently dedicated an additional 2.2 billion to defense spending. Which is sort of my point. They already have defense agreements in place and are committed to increasing defense spending. They really don’t have a need for NATO
Yes, the EU commitment is important, but small-potatoes vs a US commitment.
If I am Finland, I want that commitment from that stronger ally.
Posted on 5/12/22 at 3:34 pm to JAGuyHeh
quote:is that you vlad? What does winning mean? We kicked the shite out of the Taliban for 20 years non-stop, they lost every fight, and yet we left after spending a trillion dollars and thousands of lives to replace the Taliban with the Taliban. Russia has already lost much more militarily than the us did fighting 2 20 year long wars in Iraq in Afghanistan, and there is no end in sight, especially with superior western weapons flowing in. Russia lost this already when they failed to overwhelm the country in the first couple weeks. As of right now they are currently being pushed back from karkhov, and they still don't have air superiority after almost 3 months. I'm sure more Ukrainians have died, but there are a lot more Ukrainians in Ukraine then there are Russians
Russia is not losing. Ukraine is losing badly
This post was edited on 5/12/22 at 3:41 pm
Posted on 5/12/22 at 3:34 pm to TigerOnTheMountain
quote:
They really don’t have a need for NATO
Maybe from your point of view, but that isn't the policy position for the Finns themselves. They've seriously debated the situation internally for a number of years. They commissioned a report by an independent panel several years ago about whether to join NATO. You should understand their viewpoint before you make such definitive statements.
Posted on 5/12/22 at 3:38 pm to narddogg81
quote:I am guessing that this was dictated stream-of-consciousness and not proofed. Seldom have I seen so many good points presented with such atrocious grammar. The two don't normally go together like this.
narddogg81
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