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Started By
Message
re: Robert’s insist that tariffs are a tax on the American people, and a tax needs to come
Posted on 11/6/25 at 10:13 am to IMSA_Fan
Posted on 11/6/25 at 10:13 am to IMSA_Fan
SCOTUS doesn’t understand the basics. They are lawyers and ignorant of math and business.
It is ridiculous they are involved in Presedential policy on the national economy. It is not their place to rule on economic policy we dictate to foreign governments. They should stay in their lane.
It is ridiculous they are involved in Presedential policy on the national economy. It is not their place to rule on economic policy we dictate to foreign governments. They should stay in their lane.
2
Posted on 11/6/25 at 10:14 am to Teddy Ruxpin
quote:It was a strange law which required that people purchase a product which they may or may not wish to have. An odd requirement in a supposedly free society.
Are you under the impression Obamacare was imposed by Obama without Congress?
It was not a tax, but Roberts suddenly made that BS up and seems to be the only person who understands the judicial voodoo which leads anyone to think this was a reasonable ruling. It is notable that none of his fellow justices joined that silliness...
Roberts seems to just make up his own law and logic as he finds convenient at a given moment.
Posted on 11/6/25 at 10:15 am to Rabby
Structurally, the same thing can be said about Social Security & Medicare (which is retirement insurance) and car insurance at the state level.
The SCOTUS rulings on SS are similar legal gymnastics to get to their decisions. It would be really interesting to see someone try to take that policy before this conservative SCOTUS
The SCOTUS rulings on SS are similar legal gymnastics to get to their decisions. It would be really interesting to see someone try to take that policy before this conservative SCOTUS
This post was edited on 11/6/25 at 10:24 am
Posted on 11/6/25 at 10:19 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
The IEEPA does not authorize tariffs directly or specifically.
Who determines what a "national emergency" is when it comes to trade?
quote:
IEEPA tariffs: Broad, national-emergency-driven tariffs (e.g., fentanyl-related imports, trade deficits).
Posted on 11/6/25 at 10:20 am to Zgeo
quote:
It is ridiculous they are involved in Presedential policy on the national economy. It is not their place to rule on economic policy we dictate to foreign governments. They should stay in their lane.
So the Executive has infinite powers with no oversight? Or just for "economic policy we dictate to foreign governments"?
Where in the Constitution is that supported? Or do you just want to shred that?
Posted on 11/6/25 at 10:21 am to Lg
quote:
Who determines what a "national emergency" is when it comes to trade?
Before I answer, we need you to agree that it's irrelevant to this discussion or the point to which you replied.
Once that's agreed, the Executive typically has that power, but ONLY if granted by Congress. The IEEPA does create this avenue, but, my point remains.
quote:
The IEEPA does not authorize tariffs directly or specifically.
The "emergency" provision of the statute isn't at issue.
Posted on 11/6/25 at 10:21 am to Padme
quote:ACA was passed by Congress.
So for Obama care, he said it could survive as a tax, but for Trump, he wants to argue since it’s a tax on Americans, Trump can’t impose?
Posted on 11/6/25 at 10:21 am to Zgeo
quote:
It is ridiculous they are involved in Presedential policy on the national economy. It is not their place to rule on economic policy we dictate to foreign governments. They should stay in their lane.
How’d you feel about the Biden/student loan decision?
Posted on 11/6/25 at 10:28 am to stout
quote:
There will be lawsuits seeking the return of all tariffs, not just Trump's tariffs.
I don't think that's true.
Posted on 11/6/25 at 10:29 am to Lg
quote:
Has any other President used tarriffs? Joe Biden didn't remove the tarriffs that Trump used his first term, correct?
Biden not only kept Trumps tariffs but he added to them, like a Democrat would.
Most MAGA people think Joe was an idiot and caused further inflation too.
Posted on 11/6/25 at 10:32 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Before I answer, we need you to agree that it's irrelevant to this discussion or the point to which you replied.
So if the President looks at a situation and determines that the situation is a threat to national security, it's irrelevant?
quote:
the Executive typically has that power,
quote:
The IEEPA does create this avenue,
Imagine that.
Posted on 11/6/25 at 10:37 am to Padme
quote:
“But I mean, and I think this is a question for the other side as well: it’s two-facing. Yes, of course, there are dealings with foreign powers, but the vehicle is imposition of taxes on Americans, and that has always been the core power of Congress.
If Congress is the only part of the government that is able to pass taxes why was the individual mandate in the ACA not considered a tax when Congress passed it? The individual mandate only became a tax after SCOTUS released its opinion on the issue and in that opinion John Roberts called it a tax.
Posted on 11/6/25 at 10:43 am to WeeWee
quote:
If Congress is the only part of the government that is able to pass taxes why was the individual mandate in the ACA not considered a tax when Congress passed it?
Because Obama and the Democrats couldn't sell it as such. They needed to pass it, then have it challenged at the SC, so Roberts could call it a tax. It didn't matter to them once it was voted into law.
Posted on 11/6/25 at 10:46 am to Padme
quote:
So for Obama care, he said it could survive as a tax, but for Trump, he wants to argue since it’s a tax on Americans, Trump can’t impose?
How the frick are you equivocating these, with a serious attempt? Obamacare was passed by Congress as a law, that’s why it survived as a tax.
Trumps tariffs are executive fiat. How does your dumb arse OP have 40 upvotes?
Posted on 11/6/25 at 10:47 am to Hateradedrink
Obamacare was a bill passed by the house stripped of its meaning and modified to be Obamacare
fricking joke process.
fricking joke process.
Posted on 11/6/25 at 10:49 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
You are clearly juggling too many balls here. The text of the law referenced is to student loans.
But you're correct, the student loan language does not include the word "tariff".
---
Nice try
Again... the reference was to the student loan case which you brought up, then misattributed
quote:You are juggling too many balls!
You keep repeating this after I've told you multiple times that it was not a relevant or impactful argument in that case.
---
quote:
the Secretary of Education may waive or modify any statutory or regulatory provision applicable to the student financial assistance programs under title IV of the Higher Education Act of 1965 (HEA), as the Secretary deems necessary in connection with a war or other military operation or national emergency.
Posted on 11/6/25 at 10:50 am to Lg
quote:
So if the President looks at a situation and determines that the situation is a threat to national security, it's irrelevant?
To this discussion? Yes. The emergency declaration isn't at issue.
quote:
Imagine that.
This is exactly why dishonest posts shouldn't get responses. I gave you leeway and you just went for full on dishonesty.
Thank you. I'll use this as a reference for other dishonest posters like KCT.
Posted on 11/6/25 at 10:52 am to Hateradedrink
quote:
Trumps tariffs are executive fiat. How does your dumb arse OP have 40 upvotes?
Because most people here have never had a civics class. They have no clue whats happening in the real world.
Posted on 11/6/25 at 10:52 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
the reference was to the student loan case
No. I literally clicked back in the discussion to get to the post I linked.
You just made a mistake. I cited my work.
quote:
You are juggling too many balls!
No.
Also, the emergency declaration is still irrelevant.
Posted on 11/6/25 at 10:52 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
This is exactly why dishonest posts shouldn't get responses. I gave you leeway and you just went for full on dishonesty.
So you don't like the way you answered the questions honestly?
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