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Message
re: Rittenhouse day 9-Motions and jury instructions
Posted on 11/12/21 at 12:43 pm to jatilen
Posted on 11/12/21 at 12:43 pm to jatilen
If it is all or nothing on murder charges, that is risky. If there is a lesser charge, like a misdemeanor, it gives jurors who have a problem with a minor running around with an AR-15 something to latch onto instead of murder.
0
Posted on 11/12/21 at 12:43 pm to rt3
quote:
Nate the Lawyer pointing out that the video that allowed the 'provocation' argument was entered into evidence while Kyle was on the stand
no Kyle on the stand, no drone video in evidence
And I don't believe they gained anything from putting him on the stand.
Perhaps they feel the women on the jury may be moved by his testimony, but I don't really see it.
Posted on 11/12/21 at 12:44 pm to BuckyCheese
To also be fair, we are not getting direct shots of the jury and how they are reacting to things.
Posted on 11/12/21 at 12:45 pm to RealDawg
the big thing is the judge is not the finder of fact. It is the jury to see video and decide if what the prosecution tells them or what the defense tells them is correct based of their observations of it.
The defense will need to harp on the idea that there is no way they can see it and the fact that the person who they say the gun was aimed at didn't even testify. And was that even a provocation to the shootings.
If the jury was going to convict with this evidence as provocation, then they were going to convict no matter what.
The defense will need to harp on the idea that there is no way they can see it and the fact that the person who they say the gun was aimed at didn't even testify. And was that even a provocation to the shootings.
If the jury was going to convict with this evidence as provocation, then they were going to convict no matter what.
Posted on 11/12/21 at 12:45 pm to Jcorye1
quote:
Remember, all jury members deliberating have to agree that it was NOT self defense. I just don't see a world where that's possible at this point.
Because the jury is now going to be instructed to consider provocation. And if they believe Kyle was the provocateur based on the state's evidence, he losses all right to self defense. And he is going to jail.
Like the Rekieta attorneys have already mentioned, the media has been beating the "Kyle started it by being there with a gun" drum for fourteen months now. It will be stuck in all the juror's heads.
Posted on 11/12/21 at 12:45 pm to Jcorye1
The jury wasn't there for that boondoggle.
Posted on 11/12/21 at 12:47 pm to hogcard1964
quote:
The jury wasn't there for that boondoggle.
Well I know, but maybe they think not including that would affect the jury? Who knows, I just know that it's never as good as it seems and never as bad as it seems and the idea that all of a sudden Kyle is going to get convicted is kind of crazy to me.
Posted on 11/12/21 at 12:49 pm to BuckyCheese
Kyle fully acquitted = liberals lose their mind/media incites hate
Kyle is found guilty = liberals lose their mind/media incites hate
Kyle is found guilty of lesser charges = liberals lose their mind/media incites hate
This is what is wrong with America.
Kyle is found guilty = liberals lose their mind/media incites hate
Kyle is found guilty of lesser charges = liberals lose their mind/media incites hate
This is what is wrong with America.
Posted on 11/12/21 at 12:51 pm to ShockTroop
Nate the Lawyer dropping knowledge on the Arbury case now
Posted on 11/12/21 at 12:52 pm to Centinel
quote:no he doesnt. he retreats. he runs away full tilt. the Wisconsin self defense law says you regain the right to self defense in that circumstance
Because the jury is now going to be instructed to consider provocation. And if they believe Kyle was the provocateur based on the state's evidence, he losses all right to self defense. And he is going to jail.
Posted on 11/12/21 at 12:52 pm to Jcorye1
quote:
Well I know, but maybe they think not including that would affect the jury? Who knows, I just know that it's never as good as it seems and never as bad as it seems and the idea that all of a sudden Kyle is going to get convicted is kind of crazy to me.
This entire trial everyone was polarized from one side to the other. If Kyle is convicted, he never had a chance in the first place. Any rational human mind understands this.
Posted on 11/12/21 at 12:54 pm to ShockTroop
quote:
This entire trial everyone was polarized from one side to the other. If Kyle is convicted, he never had a chance in the first place. Any rational human mind understands this.
I'd argue a rationale person today knows he never had a chance. He will got o jail for a long time. It's unfortunate based on what was presented, but it's just how our country works now. Hope I am wrong.
Posted on 11/12/21 at 12:54 pm to Jcorye1
quote:
Okay now you're going extreme in the other direction. Kyle is still winning pretty handily at this point.
Remember, all jury members deliberating have to agree that it was NOT self defense. I just don't see a world where that's possible at this point.
The people commenting are right though, the defense should be talking dismissal, objecting, etc. instead of sitting there.
The judge isn't going to do anything but you have to put pressure on him, the prosecutor is.
Posted on 11/12/21 at 12:57 pm to narddogg81
quote:
no he doesnt. he retreats. he runs away full tilt. the Wisconsin self defense law says you regain the right to self defense in that circumstance
I meant that in the juror's minds. Basically "Kyle started it, so everything that followed was his fault. He's guilty."
Posted on 11/12/21 at 12:59 pm to Centinel
quote:
meant that in the juror's minds. Basically "Kyle started it, so everything that followed was his fault. He's guilty."
Yep. People really underestimate the stupidity of the average person.
Posted on 11/12/21 at 12:59 pm to Dawgirl
thats the point the defense should have raised. Can a reasonable person, without a lawyer giving him an interpretation, see anything there that meets the reasonable doubt standard?
Posted on 11/12/21 at 1:00 pm to GeauxFightingTigers1
new baw in the stream with a USA hat and a paper clip on the bill of the cap
Posted on 11/12/21 at 1:00 pm to Sherman Klump
quote:
This entire trial everyone was polarized from one side to the other. If Kyle is convicted, he never had a chance in the first place. Any rational human mind understands this.[/quote]
Great point. Your statement (the second one) is 100% better.
This entire trial everyone was polarized from one side to the other. If Kyle is convicted, he never had a chance in the first place. Any rational human mind understands this.[/quote]
quote:
I'd argue a rationale person today knows he never had a chance. He will got o jail for a long time. It's unfortunate based on what was presented, but it's just how our country works now. Hope I am wrong.
Great point. Your statement (the second one) is 100% better.
Posted on 11/12/21 at 1:00 pm to hogcard1964
quote:
Was it the song "Turning Japanese" by The Vapors?
great song.
surprised it's still played today
Posted on 11/12/21 at 1:01 pm to narddogg81
quote:
no he doesnt. he retreats. he runs away full tilt. the Wisconsin self defense law says you regain the right to self defense in that circumstance
Good point. They can't claim self defense for Rosenbaum, even if somehow Kyle provoked him, because Rosenbaum chased Kyle. Having to chase Kyle shows Kyle was not a threat to Rosenbaum.
This post was edited on 11/12/21 at 1:03 pm
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