re: Rama Duwaji, wife of Mamdani, is making some very ludicrous claims about Jesus' mother.

quote:

---

You frickin retards can't keep the religious aspect of this out of it because you're simple minded fools.

---

You understand the "religious aspect" was the entire point behind HER MAKING the statement, don't you? It's just sort of weird trying to pretend otherwise, and simply to try to approach this in some sort of odd purely secular semantic vacuum.

quote:

---

Based on the facts given, by today's standard, Mary would NOT be considered a Palestinian. She would be considered Jewish.
By 1st century BCE/CE, Mary WAS considered Jewish.

There is no scenario where Mary would ever be considered anything other than Jewish, until she was considered to be Christian

---

So, by facts given today

Am I to be called American
Am I to be called Louisianian
Am I to be called Iowan
Am I to be called Cajun
Am I to be called Catholic

Is all correct or just one correct?

That area was called Palestine 2000 years ago as it was under Roman occupation. That part is true but it is highly unlikely that Mary would’ve called herself a Palestinian.

quote:

---

That area was called Palestine 2000 years ago as it was under Roman occupation

---

False, it was called Judea by the Romans. Herodotus called it Palestine. Herodotus was a 4th century BCE Greek historian/scholar.

That would be like Shakespeare considering present Day Louisianians, Indians, because that's who controlled the land at his time. That classification, however, would be based on who controlled the territory alone, no other factors.

quote:

---

I don't give a shite what her intentions were

---

Apparently you do because you've been arguing that "she's not wrong" in her classification as a technicality.

quote:

---

As I said before, all three religious groups that argue over this shite do so stupidly. I would also repeat that if you're looking at it from a religious perspective only, which most here seem to be doing, the Christians should embrace this fact as well.

---

Interestingly, i am looking at it as both religious, geographical, and territorial fact. You can't ignore the other 2 because 1 part of 1 aspect agrees with you.

Religious - no dispute that Mary was Jewish
Territory - No dispute that Romans ruled the area
Geographical - During Mary's time, this area was considered Judea by the territory owners (the romans).

Here is a little more info that gives some credence to your Palestine claims but ultimately states that the land was Judea. If you disagree with it, then quote which parts of the text you disagree with and why.

quote:

---

During the time of Mary (early 1st century CE), the Romans referred to the region as Judea, not Israel or Palestine.
Official Roman Terminology (c. 63 BCE – 135 CE)

The entire area (including Galilee in the north) was part of the Roman province of Judea (Latin: Iudaea).
After Pompey conquered the Hasmonean kingdom in 63 BCE, the region was organized under Roman oversight.
Under direct Roman rule (from 6 CE onward, with client kings like Herod the Great and his sons earlier), it was the Province of Judea.

Galilee itself was a sub-region (a district) within this province. It was governed as part of Judea, though it had some administrative distinctions (e.g., under Herod Antipas as tetrarch until 39 CE). Romans and contemporary writers still grouped it under the provincial name Judea.

Other Names in Use

Israel: Not used officially by Romans. This was an older biblical/historical name for the northern kingdom (destroyed in 722 BCE) or the collective Jewish people. Jews might have used it religiously or ideally, but it was not the Roman administrative term.
Palestine (or Palaestina): Known to Greeks since Herodotus (5th century BCE) as a geographic term for the coastal/southern area. Romans were aware of it but did not use it as the official provincial name until after the Bar Kokhba revolt (c. 135 CE), when they renamed the province Syria Palaestina to punish the Jews and erase the "Judea" connection.

Contemporary Usage

The New Testament (written in Greek) often calls the broader area Judea but distinguishes Galilee as a region within it (e.g., “Jesus of Nazareth in Galilee”).
Josephus (Jewish-Roman historian, 1st century) refers to the province as Judea and Galilee as one of its divisions.
Galilee was known for its mixed Jewish population, agricultural economy, and being somewhat distant from the religious center in Jerusalem.

Bottom line: In Mary’s lifetime, the Romans called it Judea (with Galilee as part of Judea). The shift to “Palestine” as the official name came about 100 years later. This is why Jesus and Mary are historically described as living in Roman Judea.

---

quote:

---

Herodotus called it Palestine. Herodotus was a 4th century BCE Greek historian/scholar.

That would be like Shakespeare considering present Day Louisianians, Indians, because that's who controlled the land at his time. That classification, however, would be based on who controlled the territory alone, no other factors.

---

It must be nice to just shift your arguments as they're proven false. You claimed no such thing as Palestine existed at the time of Jesus. I showed otherwise. And now you pull this bullshite out.

Have you come to terms yet with the fact that the Philistines were the Palestinians?

But to address your latest bullshite argument, here are some other people of import who called it Palestine well before the Romans officially named it such.

Other Greeks:

-Aristotle
-Polemon of Ilium

ROMAN Poets and GEOGRAPHERS:

-Ovid
-Tibullus and Pomponius Mela
-STRABO in his massive 17 volume work entitled GEOGRAPHY

First Century JEWISH Intellectuals:

-Philo of Alexandria
-Flavius Josephus

Later ROMAN Historians (1st and 2nd Century):

-Pliny the Elder
-Dyochrysostom and Plutarch

And we could keep going.

The simple fact of the matter is that during the time of Christ if you spoke to a Roman tax collector and asked him about it he would call the state Judea. But if you spoke to anyone who was an intellectual whose job it was to make maps or record history they would have told you the landmass is called Palestine.

And yes, it was named after the Philistines, ya frickin dork.

Well genius if Jews were named after Judea AND Judah then those origins greatly predate any vague references to a land called Palestine. Unless you are trying to argue that Palestine existed 4000 years ago on maps which is laughable. You fools can’t get out of your own way and the Muslim references of Palestine didn’t exist until the 7th century AD when Islam originated. Any Roman references are foolish because the Romans renamed conquered territories quite frequently

quote:

---

Was Herod the King of Judea or the King of Palestine?

---

Doubling down on retarded again. Palestine was much, much larger than Judea.

quote:

---

Doubling down on retarded again

---

It's funny that when presented with an argument you can't defend, you double down on insults. Why can't you debate intelligently?

quote:

---

Palestine was much, much larger than Judea.

---

So did Palestine conquer Rome? You aren't making sense. Judea, as it was known, was a Roman territory. The Romans appointed Herod, King of Judea. Who was King of Palestine? Who controlled Palestine?

Your argument fails because you aren't consistent in anything except being wrong and cherry picking history.

For your information, Herod was appointed King of Judea, Galilea, Samaria, and part of Idumea and Perea. aka PALESTINE

quote:

---

Herod was not king of an independent nation called “Israel” or “Palestine.” The Romans used Judea as the provincial/kingdom name. “Israel” was a religious/historical term used by Jews, and “Palestine” was not yet the official Roman name.
This aligns with the earlier timeline: the region was Roman Judea during the time of Mary and Jesus. Herod’s title reinforced the “King of the Jews” (Judea) designation.

---