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re: Questions about a federal fair tax.

Posted on 6/17/24 at 8:01 pm to
Posted by TrueTiger
Chicken's most valuable
Member since Sep 2004
80346 posts
Posted on 6/17/24 at 8:01 pm to
quote:

Unless we own a business. And it still exists, isn't abolished



The footprint and cost difference of surveillance of millions of individuals v a few million businesses is a huge benefit.

Get your head out of your arse.
Posted by VoxDawg
Glory, Glory
Member since Sep 2012
75480 posts
Posted on 6/17/24 at 8:05 pm to
quote:

Unless we own a business. And it still exists, isn't abolished.


You're looking for reasons to get blown out of the water about the matter and convince yourself that it's a bad idea.
Posted by DavidTheGnome
Monroe
Member since Apr 2015
31350 posts
Posted on 6/17/24 at 8:11 pm to
I'm not going to latch onto it without exploring the negatives, no. And I don't have a hatred of the income tax other than we let the code itself get far too convoluted. Eliminate all exemptions and deductions and credits and such and just tax income at x Y and Z % period.


And what about regarding the prebates though? The government would still need to determine your income to see if you qualify so income forms and annual interaction with the IRS or whatever name you'd call it next since IRS = evil each year?
Posted by DavidTheGnome
Monroe
Member since Apr 2015
31350 posts
Posted on 6/17/24 at 8:13 pm to
quote:

The footprint and cost difference of surveillance of millions of individuals v a few million businesses is a huge benefit.




What about the footprint and cost to determine income to see who gets prebates and then anticipation of how much theyll spend each month and then mail them checks to counteract the tax?
Posted by VoxDawg
Glory, Glory
Member since Sep 2012
75480 posts
Posted on 6/17/24 at 8:19 pm to
Lighten up, Francis. It's a chart that is calculated once a year.

Single person = $X/mo.

2 people in household = $Y/mo.

3 person household

4, 5, 6, etc.

It's wholly independent of income, etc.

ETA - Speaking of which - under the plan, how much money you make is no longer the federal government's business.
This post was edited on 6/17/24 at 8:24 pm
Posted by DavidTheGnome
Monroe
Member since Apr 2015
31350 posts
Posted on 6/17/24 at 8:28 pm to
quote:

Lighten up, Francis. It's a chart that is calculated once a year.




Okay so we are back to an annual interaction with the IRS. Giving rebates to the poor so everyone isn't "paying their fair share". And we're anticipating how much individual Americans will spend in a given month, comparing that to their income, and then issuing them checks accordingly.

It seems to overly complicate things just so we can say we aren't taxing income. When just simplifying the existing tax code and eliminating all loop holes, deductions, credits, everything and just say for X amount of income your rate is this, for Y amount over that it's this, and on and on.
Posted by VoxDawg
Glory, Glory
Member since Sep 2012
75480 posts
Posted on 6/17/24 at 8:49 pm to
If you don't understand the difference between spreading the tax burden among 250M people vs 150M people, when there's a zero shift in money out on new goods they're already buying but they're taking home all of their earnings... and the current flaming shite show on ice where the government gets first rights to your wages at the point of a gun if you don't comply, then I don't know what to tell ya. You do you, baw.
Posted by VoxDawg
Glory, Glory
Member since Sep 2012
75480 posts
Posted on 6/17/24 at 8:51 pm to
quote:

And we're anticipating how much individual Americans will spend in a given month, comparing that to their income, and then issuing them checks accordingly.


Posted by BlueDogTiger
Member since Jan 2014
1431 posts
Posted on 6/17/24 at 9:08 pm to
Do not forget about Drug Dealers, illegal immigrants, and other dark money. They will be paying taxes every time they purchase goods. Also, the Fair Tax folks point out trillions of overseas money will flow back into the country once all the Corporate taxes are removed.
Posted by VoxDawg
Glory, Glory
Member since Sep 2012
75480 posts
Posted on 6/18/24 at 8:27 am to
Excellent point. The boo-birds often attempt to understate just how smooth of a transition this would be for average Americans. Folding in the entire cash/shadow economy, foreign visitors' spending, etc is massive.

Not to mention the previous costs of compliance, accounting, etc. all going away for both individuals and corporations.

Besides, the retailers are getting paid by the Treasury for their role in the collection/payment efforts.
Posted by Jorts R Us
Member since Aug 2013
16906 posts
Posted on 6/18/24 at 8:29 am to
quote:

the Fair Tax folks point out trillions of overseas money will flow back into the country once all the Corporate taxes are removed.


I'd be curious to read their explanation of why they think that is.

ETA: We already switched to a participation exemption regime after 2017, so I'm not sure this isn't an older, pre-TCJA justification for the Fair Tax.
This post was edited on 6/18/24 at 8:34 am
Posted by ChineseBandit58
Pearland, TX
Member since Aug 2005
48197 posts
Posted on 6/18/24 at 8:43 am to
quote:

The 47% of the country not paying any income tax. Pretty nifty that 47% experience no direct consequences of their voting as it relates to taxes

And /\ THIS /\ is why I'm for it until I see something bad about it - then we can tailor the bad part down.

but FIRST you have to somehow eliminate the PARASITE society from the population mix.
Posted by ChineseBandit58
Pearland, TX
Member since Aug 2005
48197 posts
Posted on 6/18/24 at 8:51 am to
quote:

I'd like to see more math on this
If I am taxed the same overall, what is the excitement about

the 'excitement' is knowing that there are no total freeloaders - and that would require the Democrats to try a little harder to earn votes = and would disincentivise them from creating more parasites.
Posted by DavidTheGnome
Monroe
Member since Apr 2015
31350 posts
Posted on 6/18/24 at 9:08 am to
quote:





How so? According to your link that's what a prebate is?
Posted by moneyg
Member since Jun 2006
62219 posts
Posted on 6/18/24 at 9:25 am to
quote:

If it generates the same or more revenue than who the hell would be against it?



People who don't pay federal taxes now.
Posted by Floyd Dawg
Silver Creek, GA
Member since Jul 2018
4963 posts
Posted on 6/18/24 at 9:30 am to
If you actually read the FairTax legislation, you’d know that every household would get a prebate equal to the amount of tax they’d pay on essential goods each month. So they in essence are tax free.
Posted by Jax-Tiger
Vero Beach, FL
Member since Jan 2005
26990 posts
Posted on 6/18/24 at 9:35 am to
quote:

The 47% of the country not paying any income tax.


Only if they don't understand the concept of the prebate.
Posted by VoxDawg
Glory, Glory
Member since Sep 2012
75480 posts
Posted on 6/18/24 at 9:47 am to
quote:

How so?

You appear to be among that group of Americans who are so cucked by the concept of the income tax and the IRS in general that you can't discuss the matter of alternative methods of taxation without it being inextricably linked to income. It damned-near borders on Stockholm Syndrome.

Under the FairTax - (expand your mind for the briefest of moments):

INCOME.

DOES.

NOT.

FACTOR.

INTO.

THE.

EQUATION.

Multiple posters have said it multiple times, and each time you respond, you erroneously loop back to the concept of how much someone making as being integral to the prebate concept, what impact it would have on new home/vehicle sales, ad infinitum, and you have yet to take the first step towards understanding the most basic of concepts that make H.R. 25 such a beautiful thing:

It's none of the federal government's goddamned business how much or how little money you make.

When you can process that fact - really wrap your brain around it, accept it, embrace it - the other details surrounding the plan would likely come into focus. If that ever happens for you, the rest of the plan is really gonna bake your noodle.
Posted by VoxDawg
Glory, Glory
Member since Sep 2012
75480 posts
Posted on 6/18/24 at 9:48 am to
quote:

Only if they don't understand the concept of the prebate.

And/Or understand the concept of embedded corporate income taxes.
Posted by el Gaucho
He/They
Member since Dec 2010
58530 posts
Posted on 6/18/24 at 9:50 am to
“Poor people” are the only ones that spend money anymore so let them pay for everything
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