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re: Question for Devil Worshippers about Satan
Posted on 12/28/22 at 10:09 am to FooManChoo
Posted on 12/28/22 at 10:09 am to FooManChoo
quote:
You think me stating that I will pray for someone is an argument
Absolutely.
2
Posted on 12/28/22 at 10:09 am to Powerman
quote:African chattel slavery was kidnapping and selling into slavery. That was specifically condemned by God in the OT law. The people were not allowed to kidnap free peoples and keep them as slaves, nor were they allowed to buy slaves who had been kidnapped.quote:Wasn't wrong for the God of your bible either and that was used as a justification for it
Maybe slavery is wrong for you but it wasn't for the sellers in Africa.
And whatever one thinks of slavery generally, the Israelites were commanded to treat their slaves humanely; the slaves had rights. They were still made in the image of God and the masters couldn’t do just anything they wanted to them.
That isn’t exactly the same thing as chattel slavery in Europe, the America’s, and even in many places today, where slaves were seen as property in every sense, and had/have few if any rights at all but could be treated as their masters please.
Posted on 12/28/22 at 10:10 am to Squirrelmeister
quote:
It’s subjective but I still find subjective morality meaningful.
You find opinions meaningful? The way most people discuss morality they talk about it as if there's some standard. They don't say that our opinions on gays are different than those of Saudi Arabia, they say they're better, as if there's a cosmic measuring stick.
Richard Dawkins, for example, will say (paraphrase) that there's no good, no evil, just cold indifference in the universe. Then in another instance he'll talk about how evil the God of the Bible is. It's logically incoherent.
Posted on 12/28/22 at 10:13 am to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:Then you would be wrong on that front. I’m not attempting to make an argument of any kind when I say that. It’s simply a commitment to pray for someone’s repentance and salvation through Jesus Christ.quote:Absolutely.
You think me stating that I will pray for someone is an argument
Posted on 12/28/22 at 10:15 am to Flats
quote:
Richard Dawkins, for example, will say (paraphrase) that there's no good, no evil, just cold indifference in the universe. Then in another instance he'll talk about how evil the God of the Bible is. It's logically incoherent.
Maybe because he understands how to speak hypothetically to different audiences.
"You don't believe in a god, so how can he be evil" is a stupid point that you should've moved beyond freshman year.
Posted on 12/28/22 at 10:17 am to FooManChoo
quote:
Where does evil come from? You haven’t answered this question, yourself. You put forward speculative theories about where you think everyone borrowed religious beliefs because you don’t want to accept the truth, but you have yet to answer my questions about where evil (morality) comes from.
Check Isaiah 45:7.
quote:
It couldn’t be that those religions shared a common history and that OT Judaism and Christianity have preserved the truth while the other religions have perverted the truth, could it?
Have you thought about the possibility of the inverse being true? Maybe you have it wrong and the other religions preserved the truth? I don’t believe that personally but how can you be so sure you have it right and everyone else is wrong? Persia conquered Babylon and freed the exiled elite Judeans and created second temple Judaism. Pick up a book. The influence was from Zoroastrianism to Judaism, not the other way around. Cyrus the great built the second temple. In the Bible, YHWH calls Cyrus “my messiah”. Lol
quote:
I bet you hold to the theory that Jesus as a religious figure was borrowed from Egyptian mythology.
Jesus concept might have been borrowed a little from Egyptian and other religions. I don’t believe a historical Jesus existed. If you read 1 Enoch and then the ascension of Isaiah, you can understand where the mythology originated to an extent. You also have to have knowledge of first temple theology to make sense. El Elyon sent his son YHWH down from the 7th heaven wearing a shell of human flesh made from the seed of David. When he descended to the firmament, he was killed by spirits in tbe sky and his blood purified creation. Then he was resurrected. Christianity evolved over time with Paul and then with the writers of Mark. It wasn’t until Matthew that Jesus was even born as a human. It was nearly 50-100 years after Jesus’ supposed death and resurrection that they began to write about Jesus and then they started creating a fictive history of his life on earth. Originally, his death and resurrection happened in the sky.
The writer of Matthew made the scene of Barabbas vs Christ akin to the first temple scapegoat sacrifice ritual. You’ll have to look up the scapegoat ritual and also Matthew 27:16-17. Did you know Barabbas’ name was also Jesus? Most English translations leave that part out but check out the Greek. The NIV gets this part right.
Posted on 12/28/22 at 10:21 am to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
"You don't believe in a god, so how can he be evil" is a stupid point that you should've moved beyond freshman year.
You don't understand quotes; otherwise you wouldn't lie about what I have or haven't said. Or maybe you would. You don't have much luck with arguments people actually put forth so a straw man is frequently your default.
In any event, "God" is not the main problem with his claim. He also says, for example, that Islam is evil. There is no evil, but Islam is very evil. It's a logically incoherent worldview. This doesn't sound like a man who doesn't really believe in good and evil.
quote:
So it is a major evil in the world, we do have to combat it, but we don't do what Trump did and say all Muslims should be shut out of the country. That's draconian, that's illiberal, inhumane and wicked.
Posted on 12/28/22 at 10:22 am to Powerman
quote:
Wasn't wrong for the God of your bible either and that was used as a justification for it
I always get a kick out of atheists who think they're smart because they've read parts of the Bible out of context and fill in their own opinions. Slavery has always been a common practice. God didn't say it was right of wrong. That's not what the Bible is about. It's a story of God's people and how He redeems them even though the screw up and make mistakes.
Posted on 12/28/22 at 10:25 am to Squirrelmeister
quote:Most people seem to miss the fact that Barabbas is a surname. Yeshua bar Abbas. Jesus, son of Abbas.
Did you know Barabbas’ name was also Jesus?
Apparently, Yeshua was a pretty common name at the time. You could not swing a stick in Herodian Judea without hitting a kid named Yeshua.
This post was edited on 12/28/22 at 10:35 am
Posted on 12/28/22 at 10:27 am to Rex Feral
quote:
I always get a kick out of atheists who think they're smart because they've read parts of the Bible out of context and fill in their own opinions. Slavery has always been a common practice. God didn't say it was right of wrong.
Did people in the U.S. use the bible as a means of justifying slavery or not?
Posted on 12/28/22 at 10:31 am to Powerman
quote:
Did people in the U.S. use the bible as a means of justifying slavery or not?
I would assume so. They were just as wrong as atheists who misinterpret the Bible to fit their narratives.
Just because Christians screw up doesn't mean the God is any less real.
Posted on 12/28/22 at 10:35 am to Rex Feral
quote:
Just because Christians screw up doesn't mean the God is any less real.
Some odd logic.
Posted on 12/28/22 at 10:36 am to Flats
quote:
You don't understand quotes
Hmm, guess you missed the poster who already made the point.
No big deal, but you should probably at least follow the discussion.
quote:
In any event, "God" is not the main problem with his claim. He also says, for example, that Islam is evil. There is no evil, but Islam is very evil. It's a logically incoherent worldview. This doesn't sound like a man who doesn't really believe in good and evil.
You think Islam doesn't have a god?
Either way, not sure why you think describing something as evil is the same as believing the religious idea of evil.
Posted on 12/28/22 at 10:38 am to FooManChoo
quote:
Then you would be wrong on that front.
I'm not. You do it frequently, and it's always when I've made fun of some aspect of your delusion. You're not really making any point, but it's absolutely part of your argument, and usually in tandem with some proselytizing.
Posted on 12/28/22 at 10:40 am to j1897
quote:
quote:
Just because Christians screw up doesn't mean the God is any less real.
Some odd logic.
It's been implied that because Christians make mistakes (ie slavery) then the Bible isn't legit. This is followed with the assumption that since the Bible can't be trusted then God doesn't exist.
Posted on 12/28/22 at 10:43 am to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
Either way, not sure why you think describing something as evil is the same as believing the religious idea of evil.
I said nothing about the "religious idea of evil". Dawkins claims he doesn't believe in evil, period. Except that he does, when it's convenient. He's logically incoherent and inconsistent, and a lot of atheists treat the idea of evil the same way. Logically they'll admit that it can't exist but they talk and live as if it does.
Posted on 12/28/22 at 10:43 am to Rex Feral
quote:
It's been implied that because Christians make mistakes (ie slavery) then the Bible isn't legit
The whole concept of Christianity is based on the fallibility of man.
I mean otherwise, why be crucified and go thru all that suffering?
Posted on 12/28/22 at 10:45 am to oogabooga68
quote:
The whole concept of Christianity is based on the fallibility of man.
Posted on 12/28/22 at 10:53 am to Flats
quote:
I said nothing about the "religious idea of evil". Dawkins claims he doesn't believe in evil, period. Except that he does, when it's convenient. He's logically incoherent and inconsistent, and a lot of atheists treat the idea of evil the same way. Logically they'll admit that it can't exist but they talk and live as if it does.
Speaking of grammar.
Anyway, Dawkins doesn't believe in the "religious idea of evil," which was the point.
Posted on 12/28/22 at 10:54 am to Rex Feral
quote:
It's been implied that because Christians make mistakes (ie slavery) then the Bible isn't legit. This is followed with the assumption that since the Bible can't be trusted then God doesn't exist.
I don't know what implications were made, but it does show that religious morality is also subjective.
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