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Message
re: Question for Devil Worshippers about Satan
Posted on 12/28/22 at 12:17 am to Squirrelmeister
Posted on 12/28/22 at 12:17 am to Squirrelmeister
quote:
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Creation of evil comes with the creation of free will. Interesting that evil is a choice and creates choices for others in reaction.
Posted on 12/28/22 at 12:19 am to musick
quote:Why? I've said the same thing to many individuals on this forum and I've prayed for all of them. I'll continue to pray for Squirrelmeister, as I have many times in the past.quote:
I’ll continue to pray for you, even if you don’t care.
Out of all the bull shite in this thread this is the biggest
I do pray for my enemies, and God's enemies, so that God would make them sons and daughters by faith. I was once an enemy of God and He saved me. I've seen other enemies of God become heirs of the promises of God, too, so I know it happens and will continue to happen until all of Christ's sheep are in the fold.
Posted on 12/28/22 at 6:31 am to Flats
quote:
What makes that heinous? Absent the supernatural we’re just animals, and animals kill each other all the time with no moral outrage from other animals.
Heinous is an adjective meaning hateful or reprehensible. The person using the word must believe something to be hateful or reprehensible in context to describe a noun.
Agree that we are all animals. Are you trying to say that without God of the Bible there can be no morality? First of all, God of the Bible sets a horrible example as he kills hundreds of thousands in the Bible, most of which are innocent people minding their business or trying to defend their land from invading YHWH-worshipping nomads. YHWH/Jesus in old and New Testaments endorse slavery. Rape a young virgin? No problem you pay the father the bride price. I personally find that to be a bad thing, but feel free to endorse slavery, rape, genocide and racism yourself if that’s what you want.
Can morality exist without YHWH god of the Bible? Your argument seems to be that morality cannot exist without God. Well… Egypt had laws against murder and rape before the hebrews existed about 6000 years ago. Babylon had similar laws (some of which were “borrowed” by exiled hebrew scribes after the exile). Greeks and Romans and Indians and Chinese all had laws based on their morality. How could any of that exist if they never even heard of YHWH? Somehow they managed.
Posted on 12/28/22 at 6:53 am to Lickitty Split
I don’t think you will find many devil worshipers on this site. In fact I believe most satanists are actually just weird attention-seeking atheists. I could be wrong on that and don’t know much on that subject.
What I can tell you about Satan was that it is a concept borrowed from Persian Zoroastrianism. Ahriman the Opposer is the evil devil spirit and he opposes the good spirit Ahura Mazda. The Christian Devil is a ripoff of Ahriman.
Where does evil come from?
First temple polytheistic Israelites and Judeans thought that evil came from evil spirits and other gods.
Second temple Jews especially towards the 300-200BCE timeframe believed in only YHWH. No other gods exist. Therefore evil as well as good can only come from YHWH. See Isaiah 45:7.
Christians and possibly Jews around the time of Christ began to pick up Ahriman the Opposer as Ahriman Ha Satan. In the Old Testament a satan was an opposer of anything but not evil. See the book of Job. In Job, YHWH and the Satan were betting against each other on Job’s faithfulness to YHWH. The Satan was one of YHWHs heavenly servants, not an evil being. In the New Testament it is clear that Ahriman Ha Satan has become “Satan” as a proper noun/name. Modern Christians believe in a powerful immortal evil spirit Satan who can control aspects of people on earth… that’s a “god”, albeit an evil one. So much for monotheism even when you don’t consider the three separate gods you might call one.
What I can tell you about Satan was that it is a concept borrowed from Persian Zoroastrianism. Ahriman the Opposer is the evil devil spirit and he opposes the good spirit Ahura Mazda. The Christian Devil is a ripoff of Ahriman.
Where does evil come from?
First temple polytheistic Israelites and Judeans thought that evil came from evil spirits and other gods.
Second temple Jews especially towards the 300-200BCE timeframe believed in only YHWH. No other gods exist. Therefore evil as well as good can only come from YHWH. See Isaiah 45:7.
Christians and possibly Jews around the time of Christ began to pick up Ahriman the Opposer as Ahriman Ha Satan. In the Old Testament a satan was an opposer of anything but not evil. See the book of Job. In Job, YHWH and the Satan were betting against each other on Job’s faithfulness to YHWH. The Satan was one of YHWHs heavenly servants, not an evil being. In the New Testament it is clear that Ahriman Ha Satan has become “Satan” as a proper noun/name. Modern Christians believe in a powerful immortal evil spirit Satan who can control aspects of people on earth… that’s a “god”, albeit an evil one. So much for monotheism even when you don’t consider the three separate gods you might call one.
Posted on 12/28/22 at 7:08 am to FooManChoo
quote:
In Leviticus 18, God explains that He sent Israel to drive out the inhabitants of Canaan because of their iniquity. Their idol worship, child sacrifices, etc. defiled the land (v. 25). God judged them for their wickedness. How could He do that when they didn't have the 10 commandments? Because sin existed before Mt. Sinai. Paul comments on this in Rom. 2:14-16
See I would argue that the writers of Leviticus included that as an excuse for genocide of their neighboring tribes so they wouldn’t feel so terrible about their crimes.
It’s natural not to murder each other, but not natural to know that they shouldn’t be worshipping whatever gods they think up using bronze statues.
A god killing people for breaking laws he hasn’t given them seems like evil. But you will say that is good. We’ll have to disagree.
Posted on 12/28/22 at 7:09 am to Lickitty Split
quote:
Question for Devil Worshippers about Satan
In 99% of cases, "Devil Worshippers" are like Wiccans and Atheists:
People who seek attention, yet have no discernible talents or personality to speak of are able to draw attention to themselves by claiming to be a Devil, Atheist or Witch.
There are exceptions, but the overwhelming majority of these self identified dabblers and doubters are nothing more that shitlords seeking attention.
Posted on 12/28/22 at 7:11 am to deeprig9
quote:
When non-believers become more zealous than the believers, that's how you know.
A legitimate atheist will never be "more zealous" than a true believer like Foo.
Posted on 12/28/22 at 7:13 am to musick
quote:
Out of all the bullshite in this thread this is the biggest
This is what he does when I poke fun at something silly he's said and he only has emotion left to argue with.
Posted on 12/28/22 at 7:18 am to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
This is what he does when I poke fun at something silly he's said
Thank you for finally admitting you're nothing but a Troll!
Welcome to the party, pal!
Posted on 12/28/22 at 7:29 am to Powerman
quote:
Do you think there are satanists lurking on here?
Yes Lucifer we do
Posted on 12/28/22 at 9:10 am to Squirrelmeister
quote:
Agree that we are all animals. Are you trying to say that without God of the Bible there can be no morality?
Without a God, not necessarily the God of the Bible (although that's what I happen to believe) there can be no objective morality. All we're logically left with is moral relativism and opinions about right and wrong, which are no more meaningful than opinions about your favorite color. Maybe slavery is wrong for you but it wasn't for the sellers in Africa.
Posted on 12/28/22 at 9:12 am to Flats
quote:
Maybe slavery is wrong for you but it wasn't for the sellers in Africa.
Wasn't wrong for the God of your bible either and that was used as a justification for it
Posted on 12/28/22 at 9:13 am to oogabooga68
quote:
In 99% of cases, "Devil Worshippers" are like Wiccans and Atheists:
most are fat, gothic zoomers.
They'll grow out of it.
Posted on 12/28/22 at 9:15 am to Powerman
quote:
Wasn't wrong for the God of your bible either and that was used as a justification for it
Pay attention; there can be no real "wrong" under his worldview (and probably yours as well). Just things that we like or don't like.
Posted on 12/28/22 at 9:46 am to Squirrelmeister
quote:You haven’t answered this question, yourself. You put forward speculative theories about where you think everyone borrowed religious beliefs because you don’t want to accept the truth, but you have yet to answer my questions about where evil (morality) comes from.
Where does evil come from?
You are quick to condemn God and anyone who acts against your personal moral code, but you have yet to provide a defense for your own morality, at least to my knowledge.
What standard or law do you use to judge good and evil, and where did that standard or law come from?
quote:You seem to be one of those people that assume any similarities between OT Judaism or Christianity and any other religions must have been borrowed from those other religions. It couldn’t be that those religions shared a common history and that OT Judaism and Christianity have preserved the truth while the other religions have perverted the truth, could it? If the Bible is true, you would expect a certain amount of truth to be preserved even in other religions, like flood stories, for example.
Christians and possibly Jews around the time of Christ began to pick up Ahriman the Opposer as Ahriman Ha Satan. In the Old Testament a satan was an opposer of anything but not evil. See the book of Job. In Job, YHWH and the Satan were betting against each other on Job’s faithfulness to YHWH. The Satan was one of YHWHs heavenly servants, not an evil being. In the New Testament it is clear that Ahriman Ha Satan has become “Satan” as a proper noun/name. Modern Christians believe in a powerful immortal evil spirit Satan who can control aspects of people on earth… that’s a “god”, albeit an evil one. So much for monotheism even when you don’t consider the three separate gods you might call one.
I bet you hold to the theory that Jesus as a religious figure was borrowed from Egyptian mythology.
Posted on 12/28/22 at 9:46 am to Tigers2010a
quote:
Creation of evil comes with the creation of free will. Interesting that evil is a choice and creates choices for others in reaction.
Violent tendencies have a partly genetic basis; some mental illnesses have an even stronger genetic basis; we all know alcoholism is partly heritable.
Knowing this..
Too bad God couldn’t have reduced the heritability of a few of these traits. Heritability is difficult to understand when contrasted with God granting free will.
God: here’s some free will for ya. Also God: yeah, if you could just give some of that free will back, that would be great.
This post was edited on 12/28/22 at 9:47 am
Posted on 12/28/22 at 9:50 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
They'll grow out of it.
Yep.
Like lots of College Freshmen girls who are suddenly bi or Lesbian.
It's a phase for most.
Posted on 12/28/22 at 9:54 am to Flats
I agree with you about no objective morality. It’s subjective but I still find subjective morality meaningful.
Posted on 12/28/22 at 10:00 am to Squirrelmeister
quote:When all else fails, blame the scribes! It couldn’t be that God preserved His word. No, it has to be that it was written by men without any divine inspiration at all, so therefore all testimonies to truth had to have been just men covering their tracks to make their lies more believable. The amount of hoops you have to jump through in order to deny your maker is a testament to the depravity of men.
See I would argue that the writers of Leviticus included that as an excuse for genocide of their neighboring tribes so they wouldn’t feel so terrible about their crimes.
quote:It’s not natural to do either. Both are against God’s moral law, but like you’ve been doing, men suppress the knowledge of the truth in unrighteousness and exchange the truth about God for a lie, making gods to worship rather the the one, true God. Humanism does this same thing. It just replaces God with men instead of statues of bronze.
It’s natural not to murder each other, but not natural to know that they shouldn’t be worshipping whatever gods they think up using bronze statues.
quote:Again, where does your standard from evil come from?
A god killing people for breaking laws he hasn’t given them seems like evil. But you will say that is good. We’ll have to disagree.
I’ve already explained how God taking the lives of His creation isn’t murder. You’ve yet to explain the law that you adhere to as a standard of morality that can be used to judge God (or anyone else, for that matter).
Posted on 12/28/22 at 10:02 am to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:You think me stating that I will pray for someone is an argument, much less one from emotion?
This is what he does when I poke fun at something silly he's said and he only has emotion left to argue with.
It’s not. It’s a statement of intent of action on my part, which I fulfilled and will continue to do. I pray for you, too.
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