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re: Putin insists Ukraine has to surrender territory for any deal to be possible
Posted on 11/27/25 at 7:56 pm to dallastiger55
Posted on 11/27/25 at 7:56 pm to dallastiger55
quote:no, they didn't break any treaties. Russia did though, they promised not to attack Ukraine and respect their borders when they gave up their nukes.
But didn’t Ukraine break the treaty in the first place?
0
Posted on 11/27/25 at 7:58 pm to Major Dutch Schaefer
It’s the most ancient pact of man. Right of conquest.
Posted on 11/27/25 at 8:04 pm to Major Dutch Schaefer
Most Americans don’t understand that Russians have shed blood for the land between the Dneipr and Kyiv time and time again. If I’m putting I’m keeping all of that land.
Posted on 11/27/25 at 8:05 pm to Major Dutch Schaefer
Surrender territory beyond that already captured by the Russians?
Posted on 11/27/25 at 8:18 pm to Major Dutch Schaefer
From a Russian perspective you have to justify Russian lives lost and thats a way to do it
Posted on 11/27/25 at 8:44 pm to Major Dutch Schaefer
Ukraine has to give up Crimea and the Donbass. That ship has sailed, you aren’t getting it back through force then you sure as hell won’t get it via concession.
Cut your losses and hold onto Odessa. The eastern provinces are war torn and mined to no end.
Cut your losses and hold onto Odessa. The eastern provinces are war torn and mined to no end.
Posted on 11/27/25 at 8:44 pm to Major Dutch Schaefer
If Ukraine has biolabs, destroy them. Erase them from the earth. Then give Putin what he wants.
Posted on 11/27/25 at 9:10 pm to ghost_rider10
As some of you have said, if Ukraine does not concede the remaining 12% of the Donbas, Russia will just continue, take Odessa and then negotiate.
Posted on 11/27/25 at 9:33 pm to Breaux
quote:
But this board for years told me Putin is the good guy.
There are no good guys. We shouldn’t be involved.
Posted on 11/27/25 at 9:50 pm to Major Dutch Schaefer
LINK
Stand up for Ukraine and deliver a peace deal that doesn’t reward warmonger Putin
By Post Editorial Board
Negotiators from the Trump administration gave Ukraine an ultimatum last week: Accept this deal, or the next one will be worse. It’s tough to see how. The 28-point peace plan fattens Ukraine up for a reinvasion, handing Russia swaths of territory that it failed to take despite an avalanche of men, money and arms. If allowed by treaty to jump the front lines, a Russian force rejuvenated by the United States would face a Ukraine neutered by it. An army no greater than 600,000 men. Fighter jets parked outside the nation. And in return, only point No. 5: “Ukraine will receive reliable security guarantees.”
How vague is that, especially considering Ukraine will be banned from joining NATO? It is no guarantee at all, and Russian dictator Vladimir Putin and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky know it. It is admirable that President Trump wants the killing to end, but why is he — and special envoy Steve Witkoff — falling for Russian propaganda? Putin argues that Ukraine will eventually crumble, so let’s skip to the end. But Kyiv has more than held its own for four years, and has done the West an enormous favor by weakening our geopolitical foe, reducing Vlad’s offensive to an inch-by-inch slog.
The war may be a stalemate, but it is not an inevitable Russian victory — and even then perhaps a pyrrhic one. Putin may bluster, but sanctions do bite, and raise the specter of unrest under his dictatorship. He dreamed of a new Russian Empire, but at 73, time is not on his side. Ukraine was supposed to fall quickly. Yet Kyiv’s drones and missiles have done spectacular damage to his oil and gas infrastructure.
The Europeans are the ones paying for those arms, and giving our military manufacturers a huge boost in the process. Ukraine, with the help of the United States and European Union, “holds the cards,” as Trump says. Why not use them? We’re not calling for endless war, nor encouraging the start of World War III. Aiding Ukraine does not invariably lead to that end, despite the propaganda podcasters paid by Russia to claim that and encourage total surrender.
Putting pressure on Putin isn’t “escalation,” it’s about a fair peace. At least the United States must use its leverage to get a better deal than the one offered. Freeze the battle lines where they are now, don’t give Russia territory it doesn’t have. If fighter jets must move to Poland, don’t put caps on Ukraine’s armed forces. Rather than a vague “security guarantee,” put a US military base in Ukraine — a deterrent and a reassurance.
Stand up for Ukraine and deliver a peace deal that doesn’t reward warmonger Putin
By Post Editorial Board
Negotiators from the Trump administration gave Ukraine an ultimatum last week: Accept this deal, or the next one will be worse. It’s tough to see how. The 28-point peace plan fattens Ukraine up for a reinvasion, handing Russia swaths of territory that it failed to take despite an avalanche of men, money and arms. If allowed by treaty to jump the front lines, a Russian force rejuvenated by the United States would face a Ukraine neutered by it. An army no greater than 600,000 men. Fighter jets parked outside the nation. And in return, only point No. 5: “Ukraine will receive reliable security guarantees.”
How vague is that, especially considering Ukraine will be banned from joining NATO? It is no guarantee at all, and Russian dictator Vladimir Putin and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky know it. It is admirable that President Trump wants the killing to end, but why is he — and special envoy Steve Witkoff — falling for Russian propaganda? Putin argues that Ukraine will eventually crumble, so let’s skip to the end. But Kyiv has more than held its own for four years, and has done the West an enormous favor by weakening our geopolitical foe, reducing Vlad’s offensive to an inch-by-inch slog.
The war may be a stalemate, but it is not an inevitable Russian victory — and even then perhaps a pyrrhic one. Putin may bluster, but sanctions do bite, and raise the specter of unrest under his dictatorship. He dreamed of a new Russian Empire, but at 73, time is not on his side. Ukraine was supposed to fall quickly. Yet Kyiv’s drones and missiles have done spectacular damage to his oil and gas infrastructure.
The Europeans are the ones paying for those arms, and giving our military manufacturers a huge boost in the process. Ukraine, with the help of the United States and European Union, “holds the cards,” as Trump says. Why not use them? We’re not calling for endless war, nor encouraging the start of World War III. Aiding Ukraine does not invariably lead to that end, despite the propaganda podcasters paid by Russia to claim that and encourage total surrender.
Putting pressure on Putin isn’t “escalation,” it’s about a fair peace. At least the United States must use its leverage to get a better deal than the one offered. Freeze the battle lines where they are now, don’t give Russia territory it doesn’t have. If fighter jets must move to Poland, don’t put caps on Ukraine’s armed forces. Rather than a vague “security guarantee,” put a US military base in Ukraine — a deterrent and a reassurance.
This post was edited on 11/27/25 at 9:56 pm
Posted on 11/27/25 at 11:26 pm to Major Dutch Schaefer
quote:
Putin insists Ukraine has to surrender territory for any deal to be possible
The territory is less important than the ability to secure defensive treaties with Europe et al.
Posted on 11/28/25 at 12:53 am to LegendInMyMind
quote:
Then what the hell is the point of all this "peace talks" nonsense?
The talks are necessary and should be happening. But they’re also for domestic consumption with attention grabbing headlines as seen with right leaning news organizations / social media and to apply some pressure on Russia. I don’t mind that happening at all and in fact I applaud it. I have always found it odd as hell that we are negotiating to end a war that we aren’t a part of but moving on…
quote:
If one side doesn't recognize the other side that is negotiating as legitimate, then there is little chance that side will respect anything that is agreed upon.
This war has always been up to Putin to decide when enough is enough. Personally, I think this has always been about rare earths and the agricultural production. Once they have that under control that will be when their goals will suddenly be met.
quote:
This all seems built to fail.
The skeptical side of me wholeheartedly agrees. I hope I’m wrong.
Posted on 11/28/25 at 2:59 am to Figgy
Somehow the people who side with Ukraine have deluded themselves into thinking this is some sort of democratic negotiation. ie we get something, we give up something and the same with Russia.
It simply does not work that way when you are losing a war, and you are losing a war.
Russia wants the last part of Donbas and they will stop fighting. Option B, keep fighting, and if the US pulls support from a tech, targeting etc standpoint, Russia will not stop at Donbas, they will take Odessa. Its the lesser of two options, but it is the only option.
This pie in the sky support from Europe is just that. Look at history, they have reneged on NATO for 60 years. What happened to their UN green fund? After the US saving them in two wars, they not only did not fund NATO, they formed the EU as a trading block to purposely screw the US on trade.
It saddens me that the hate of all things Russian is greater than compassion for the millions who have suffered, and will continue to do so until Ukraine accepts the inevitable, cuts their losses and calls it a day.
It simply does not work that way when you are losing a war, and you are losing a war.
Russia wants the last part of Donbas and they will stop fighting. Option B, keep fighting, and if the US pulls support from a tech, targeting etc standpoint, Russia will not stop at Donbas, they will take Odessa. Its the lesser of two options, but it is the only option.
This pie in the sky support from Europe is just that. Look at history, they have reneged on NATO for 60 years. What happened to their UN green fund? After the US saving them in two wars, they not only did not fund NATO, they formed the EU as a trading block to purposely screw the US on trade.
It saddens me that the hate of all things Russian is greater than compassion for the millions who have suffered, and will continue to do so until Ukraine accepts the inevitable, cuts their losses and calls it a day.
Posted on 11/28/25 at 7:27 am to trinidadtiger
Absolutely no way Putin accepts anything less than those regions that give Crimea a land bridge.
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