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Message
Personnel is Policy: To fix education, we have to fix the policies that protect teachers
Posted on 5/23/22 at 10:25 am
Posted on 5/23/22 at 10:25 am
Have your kids ever had a shitty teacher? Are you looking at these teachers on Libs of TikTok and wondering how they have jobs? Years ago, our state legislatures were tricked by education advocates into passing laws to protect bad teachers. Its time for a national movement to revisit these laws.
I don't know the laws in every state, but I do know Alabama and Mississippi, where I have experience.
In Alabama, once a teacher teaches in the state for three years, they are protected by tenure. In Mississippi, once a teacher teaches in a district for two years, they are protected (although if you change districts in MS, your clock starts over). Looking at the 2012 law that passed Louisiana, they have to have passing evaluations 5 times in a 6 year period.
If a school does not get rid of a bad teacher before they hit the tenure point, its almost impossible to get rid of them. And if a school district wants to fire a teacher, the amount of red tape and hearings that they have to go through makes them think again. The only way its worth it for most school boards is if its a big deal like a sex issue or stolen funds. They let terrible behavior from teachers slide because its too difficult to go through the process, and the bureaucrats that run the hearings are normally pro-teacher.
The idea of tenure was created to protect higher education professors from being fired if their superiors disagreed with their research. Its being used to protect these liberal progressives that have taken over our schools. Its time that red states start revisiting these protections.
I don't know the laws in every state, but I do know Alabama and Mississippi, where I have experience.
In Alabama, once a teacher teaches in the state for three years, they are protected by tenure. In Mississippi, once a teacher teaches in a district for two years, they are protected (although if you change districts in MS, your clock starts over). Looking at the 2012 law that passed Louisiana, they have to have passing evaluations 5 times in a 6 year period.
If a school does not get rid of a bad teacher before they hit the tenure point, its almost impossible to get rid of them. And if a school district wants to fire a teacher, the amount of red tape and hearings that they have to go through makes them think again. The only way its worth it for most school boards is if its a big deal like a sex issue or stolen funds. They let terrible behavior from teachers slide because its too difficult to go through the process, and the bureaucrats that run the hearings are normally pro-teacher.
The idea of tenure was created to protect higher education professors from being fired if their superiors disagreed with their research. Its being used to protect these liberal progressives that have taken over our schools. Its time that red states start revisiting these protections.
This post was edited on 5/23/22 at 10:26 am
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Posted on 5/23/22 at 10:28 am to anc
Yeah, they need to stop protecting horrid teaching and we need to get away from the state testing, and get back to teaching actual content.
Posted on 5/23/22 at 10:33 am to anc
Let’s be honest. In “good” neighborhoods, kids are doing fine. In bad neighborhoods, even when loads of money are dumped, nothing changes.
The problem is the kids more than teachers.
The problem is the kids more than teachers.
Posted on 5/23/22 at 10:34 am to anc
K-12 tenure is ridiculous.
Posted on 5/23/22 at 10:35 am to anc
And, we need to start paying teachers based on the quality and quantity of their work product. I have no problem with paying a good teacher, but shitty teachers are overpaid no matter what they're making - and based on what we're seeing as output from our public schools, we have mostly shitty teachers.
Posted on 5/23/22 at 10:38 am to DesScorp
quote:
Let’s be honest. In “good” neighborhoods, kids are doing fine.
This is no longer true.
quote:
The problem is the kids more than teachers.
No. The problem is teachers and their bosses.
Posted on 5/23/22 at 10:38 am to RockyMtnTigerWDE
I left K-12 administration and transitioned to higher for two reasons.
1. The IEP system, which is destroying K-12 schools from the inside.
2. The state testing scam, which is making a few people rich and doing nothing to help education.
Mississippi's state testing basically costs $37 per test. A student entering kindergarten takes about 112 tests before they graduate 12th grade. There are 500,000 students in Mississippi.
The average parent can't tell you what their kids' test scores look like and the average teacher can't read the results and make an improvement plan. The tests are being administered, but nothing is being done past that. Its something to check off a list.
1. The IEP system, which is destroying K-12 schools from the inside.
2. The state testing scam, which is making a few people rich and doing nothing to help education.
Mississippi's state testing basically costs $37 per test. A student entering kindergarten takes about 112 tests before they graduate 12th grade. There are 500,000 students in Mississippi.
The average parent can't tell you what their kids' test scores look like and the average teacher can't read the results and make an improvement plan. The tests are being administered, but nothing is being done past that. Its something to check off a list.
This post was edited on 5/23/22 at 10:42 am
Posted on 5/23/22 at 10:39 am to RockyMtnTigerWDE
quote:
Yeah, they need to stop protecting horrid teaching and we need to get away from the state testing, and get back to teaching actual content.
YES YES YES!!!!
Posted on 5/23/22 at 10:54 am to DesScorp
quote:
The problem is the kids more than teachers.
Yup. Accountability is racist. I mean that quite literally. Blacks want the status quo because it's easier to bitch and complain about why they "can't" as well as "project" their problems onto whitey.
Accountability means they got the tough standards like everyone else with no excuses. They don't want that. At all.
Adding another problem is their lack of family structure, and the perpetuating of the "Whoa is me" stereotype they scribe in the minds of their kids. You already start off thinking you are behind the 8-ball and whitey is gonna hold you back, because we have nothing better to do that frick with the 11%'ers right?
With regard to teachers, I don't think they keep up their credentials like they should, and I don;t think they are empowered to control the environment they teach in. The ones that seem the most empowered are the off the rails hard core liberals that use every subject to turn it into a social injustice. Somehow math gets to be racist, or science becomes racist or homophobic.
School isn't school. Most teacher's and Administration likely spend too much time addressing students and parents that have some racial/social agenda. It's out of control. However, getting back to control and accountability, you can't demand it because people really don't seem to want it.
This post was edited on 5/23/22 at 11:01 am
Posted on 5/23/22 at 10:57 am to anc
Teacher ideology isn’t too much an issue in the rural area I live in. Shitty public school education is though.
Posted on 5/23/22 at 11:02 am to anc
quote:
the average teacher can't read the results and make an improvement plan.
Even if a teacher can decipher the test scores they are not doing anything on an improvement plan. They just keep teaching the kids to take the tests and that is not helping our kids at all. The testing is a scam and it has turned the curriculum into a testing prep class and nothing more.
Posted on 5/23/22 at 11:07 am to anc
This starts at the top. The Dept of Education in DC needs to be removed as a Cabinet position and gutted into being little but a passthrough for federal money to schools via a simple $-per-student formula.
As long as you have shite like this rolling down from Capitol Hill (thus making administrators scared to death of attempting to discipline students, much less letting teachers do it), don't expect any other solution to work.
As long as you have shite like this rolling down from Capitol Hill (thus making administrators scared to death of attempting to discipline students, much less letting teachers do it), don't expect any other solution to work.
Posted on 5/23/22 at 11:47 am to anc
quote:
I don't know the laws in every state, but I do know Alabama and Mississippi, where I have experience.
And how many blue-haired libs of tik tok freaks are actually teaching in the gulf south? And at the schools your kids go to?
I promise you 99% of the teachers are fine. This is the converse of what the left is doing - telling blacks white nationalism is the biggest threat. We know it isn't. Same thing here. You see crap on libs of tik tok and go crazy. Anybody with a brain could probably just meet their kids teachers and decide if they want to keep them enrolled in school. But most teachers think exactly like the people in their communities.
School is a weird situation to begin with. It's why so many kids are on adhd crap when they don't need to be. Children evolved to have tons of energy and move around a lot to keep them from succumbing to predators. Now we expect them to sit still for 8 hours a day.
The fact that we use the same format we used 100 years ago, in 2022, with all of this technology, is crazy.
Teachers have to teach to the middle, and most of the middle isn't getting any of the support they need at home, is undisciplined, and on medication. And teachers and schools hands are tied. They can't remove them or anything.
So anybody who's griping about it should do the one thing that's in their power to do - send their kids to private school - and if you're not... then shut the frick up. Or run for the school board or something.
Posted on 5/23/22 at 11:55 am to the_magician
I agree except for this
If these rural SE Oklahoma school districts need to purge about 1/3 teachers then I think you're greatly underestimating the fact that a ton of teachers see themselves as friends, cultivators and influencers instead of teachers.
quote:
promise you 99% of the teachers are fine.
If these rural SE Oklahoma school districts need to purge about 1/3 teachers then I think you're greatly underestimating the fact that a ton of teachers see themselves as friends, cultivators and influencers instead of teachers.
Posted on 5/23/22 at 12:01 pm to DesScorp
quote:
The problem is the kids more than teachers.
Disagree - kids are the same they have been forever. The problem is the parents or lack of parents for today's kids.
Posted on 5/23/22 at 12:03 pm to anc
Teachers at the High School level and lower do not need tenure. They need to follow the curriculum laid out by school board and agreed to by the parents.
Posted on 5/23/22 at 12:05 pm to anc
Education is a "top-down" problem that isn't easy to fix. You would have to essentially have all the politicians, national, state, and local administrators all admit that they are wrong and everything they have done up to this point isn't for the benefit of students. Teachers are scapegoats and always have been. They get the blame when systems fail because it's easy to replace them, well at least it used to be before education develioped a critical shortage. Teachers can only do what they are told to do by their bosses. They are woefully underpaid for the amount of bullshite they put up with on a daily basis.
This post was edited on 5/23/22 at 12:07 pm
Posted on 5/23/22 at 12:10 pm to anc
quote:
1. The IEP system, which is destroying K-12 schools from the inside.
Can you expand on this?
Posted on 5/23/22 at 12:18 pm to anc
quote:
The idea of tenure was created to protect higher education professors from being fired if their superiors disagreed with their research. Its being used to protect these liberal progressives that have taken over our schools.
Historically, K-12 tenure was created in Ohio to settle salary disputes. IE, 'We don't have the money to give you a raise but we'll give you tenure if you call off the strike.'
Other states followed suit because they didn't want to go to taxpayers to raise teacher salaries
What I would suggest is to unravel that. Offer teachers increased pay if they will waive tenure and freeze teacher salaries for those who wish to retain tenure.
Posted on 5/23/22 at 12:59 pm to Porter Osborne Jr
quote:
Can you expand on this?
Individual Education Plan.
Good intentions + Emphasis on Sports + Progressives Dabbling = Destroying education
Basically an IEP was supposed to be issued to students with actual critical needs that needed to be addressed. Suzy has dyslexia, documented from a professional, so Suzy should be given an extra 15 minutes on reading assignments.
In 2007, I was a district administrator. A principal and I were riding back from a convention with an athletic director. The AD and principal were discussing using an IEP for a few athletes that were having trouble maintaining academic eligibility. I was appalled but I played dumb.
"There's a psychometrist [a couple of counties over] that would classify us as special needs for the right price. We just have to get the booster club to cover the expense."
I looked into it, brought my findings to the superintendent and was told this is how it works. I left K-12 administration within a few months.
Now, the IEP is being used for crap like "Student gets anxiety taking tests. Student should have multiple days to take tests." and "Student gets angry when receiving failing grades. Student should not receive lower than 70 on any assignment."
No hyperbole - Ive seen both of those.
This post was edited on 5/23/22 at 1:04 pm
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