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Message
re: Passing a law designating Islam as a political movement
Posted on 8/29/26 at 12:55 pm to FooManChoo
Posted on 8/29/26 at 12:55 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
The one and only version taught in the Bible, summarized by the ancient creeds and the solas of the Reformation, but regardless of "version", the truth claims of the Bible can suffice. You disagree with a lot of them, apparently.
This is a lie. There are many different versions that different Christians believe. If you weren't attacking me, you'd be attacking them.
Why do you need to pretend like they all agree?
quote:
You're sympathetic to people who follow a myth (from your perspective)?
You don't even know what Jesus taught and you claim to be cool with those who follow Him, even though I do follow Jesus and you reject me.
Perhaps you are the one who believes a myth about Jesus and you don't like anyone who disagrees with your false view of Him.
You are a follower of Paul, not Jesus.
General Message:
Jesus: The Kingdom of God. Jesus focused on a radical restructuring of society here on earth, uplifting the poor and flipping social hierarchies.
Paul: The Theology of Christ. Paul focused almost exclusively on Jesus' death, resurrection, and how an individual gets to heaven through faith.
View of the State:
Jesus: Subversive & Resistant. Jesus mocked King Herod (calling him "that fox") and was ultimately executed by Rome as a political rebel for claiming to be a King
Paul: Submissive & Obedient. Paul commanded believers to submit to the government, stating that "the authorities that exist have been established by God" (Romans 13:1).
Religious Law & Practice:
Jesus: Flipping the Rules. Jesus constantly broke Sabbath rules, touched the unclean, and fiercely condemned the Pharisees for being rigid, hypocritical rule-makers.
Paul: Pharisaic Structure. Paul brought back intense rules regarding church hierarchy, modesty, head coverings, and how women should behave in assembly.
Paul, who never met the living Jesus, completely shifts the focus:
Paul almost never quotes Jesus’ earthly teachings, parables, or ethical commands.
Instead, Paul focuses entirely on Jesus as a cosmic, divine sacrifice.
By shifting the requirement from doing what Jesus did to believing in who Jesus was, Paul made the religion highly acceptable to the status quo. You no longer had to disrupt the Roman Empire or give away all your wealth; you just had to have faith in the Savior.
Further proof you worship Satan:
Jesus says:
John 12:31: "Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince (ruler) of this world will be driven out."
John 14:30: "I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming. He has no claim on me."
John 16:11: "...the ruler of this world stands condemned."
Paul says Satan is the god of this age and teaches submission to the state - which he claims God has placed.
Romans 13:1: "Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God."
So again, your god is Satan.
1
Posted on 8/29/26 at 1:15 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
OK, so you like the idea of some made-up person that aligns with your arbitrary ideals?
It's an archetype.
quote:
Says who? God declared this in the 10 commandments and defined what was meant by it, but why should I care about your own arbitrary commands?
Says understanding. It's like focusing on 1+1=2 and repeating it over and over vs knowing how to do math. If you focus on the 1+1=2(the idol) then you will eventually replace the actual understanding with it and the 1+1=2 will then be used for anything as it no longer has the meaning.
That's why you turn Jesus into an idol to be worshipped and then never follow or see the actual understanding.
quote:
'm also trying to "set [you] free" from your sin by explaining that Jesus has purchased your freedom as long as you receive it. In the Matrix, you had to swallow a pill to be set free, but all Jesus demands of you is to believe Him. Would it be helpful if I sent you a sugar pill to take?
The truth will set you free. All neo is offered is the truth.
Did Neo turn around and worship the pill/device that showed the truth and turn that pill into an idol? No, because that would be stupid.
quote:
The analogy doesn't go so far. Neo didn't claim to be God, accepting worship. He seemed to deny such a thing, actually. Jesus accepted worship and made claims that only God could make. Neo is dead, but Jesus is alive right now and is anticipating your worship.
Jesus never claims to be God; he only speaks of the father within him. That is all part of your idol worship. The father is much greater than Jesus because Jesus is a limitation.
You do not understand the father son relationship because you do not know the father to understand it.
quote:
You reject the biblical teachings of sin and salvation through faith in Jesus Christ alone, for one.
You sound like a trans person who claims I'm acting violently when I refuse to believe their claims.
quote:
I understand how reason works and how truth claims work. You are just making an assertion that I'm wrong and then not backing it up. You are the one who doesn't get how this works.
If you had understanding you wouldn't be an idol worshipper. The fact you are an idol worshipper highlights your lack of actual understanding.
It's like claiming you understand math while repeating 1+1=2 over while claiming any other expression is false. That's also why you struggle to understand what I pointed out about the Matrix and neo. You can only see the surface.
quote:
You need to describe what you mean by the son being the limitation. From my understanding, the Son is certainly a limitation, since no one else has enough money to pay off the debt. I used $20 to make it simple, but it's more actually an infinite debt that no one has the credit to pay except Jesus.
God didn't create the debt. Man did, and we don't have the funds to pay off that debt.
I find it ironic that you quoted John 3:16, because in that verse, it speaks of salvation through belief in Jesus. I'm talking about how Jesus actually saves people, but that verse hits it at a high level: we are in need of salvation, and those who trust in Jesus will not perish. You refuse to even believe that message.
What Jesus says it means to believe in him and what Paul claims it means to believe in Jesus are completely different things.
Jesus says believing in him means you will do as he does. Paul turns it into idol worship.
quote:
Link to that definition for me, please. I haven't been able to find one like that online.
What you are saying is that if one dares to use an ultimate authority as an ultimate authority, that that is a "dogma". Do you then claim that "laws of logic exist" is a dogma?
What makes it the ultimate authority? That is your dogma.
quote:
You actually aren't supporting your claims at all. You are just making claims.
You keep repeating the same lies over and over.
quote:
Well it's a truth claim on your part, and based on your prior definitions, it is also a truth claim.
It's also a non-sensical claim. Learning during life how to act is a claim that there is an objective standard that people are all learning to conform to, but you haven't said what that standard is or how we know we are getting close to it. It goes back to our prior discussion of objective morality: you have no basis for it. You just claim it exists, apparently.
It's based on understanding.
quote:
You want God to arbitrarily forgive people. That isn't justice. You want an unjust God. You reject that God should take sin seriously, which is both a denial of His justice and His holiness. You assume that the God of the Bible is different from what He claims to be, and then you judge Him based off of your false beliefs about Him.
God's justice requires payment for sin-debt. You can't pay it off, so He sent His Son to pay the debt. You are offered a free gift of paying off your debt and you reject it, and then claim God isn't just because some people haven't heard the free offer, as well? No one deserves to have their debts paid, mind you.
Wrong, I've never said any such thing.
None of you are going to heaven.
Posted on 8/29/26 at 2:02 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Jesus did many miracles and you are only looking at one, or maybe two. Are you just going to pick and choose which ones you think best fit your beliefs?
Also, the texts, themselves, give no indication that these events are related to the sun or sun worship. In fact, they occur in the context of a broader narrative that condemns worshipping the sun or any other idols. The focus is on Jesus Christ, the God-man, who was able to perform miracles by His own power.
Also, the crown of thorns is a laughable example. The thorns were given to mock and ridicule Jesus, not to be an example of how He is truly king as the sun god. He was also given a purple robe and a reed to show He is "king". How do those fit into your narrative
What you're doing is typically called "cherry-picking", and if the Christian writers who composed the Bible really had intended on showing Jesus as a "sun god", then they did a terrible job, considering no one believed that.
So your response to me showing you where things were based on other religions is to claim those things are cherry picking?
I guess that's another word you don't understand the meaning of.
quote:
Nope, that's not what Christianity teaches.
One God (in essence or being), subsisting in three persons.
For someone so hostile to Christianity, you should at least spend some time understanding the most basic elements of the religion.
God is in fact paying his own debt by your own claims as I originally said.
quote:
Not according to God. He cannot be an idol. He is God.
]dols are bad because there is only one God and He deserves all worship. If we worship an idol, we are glorifying something made of our hands and/or imagination and not the one, true, and living God.
Whatever this view of a god you have is an idol because He has not revealed Himself as such.
Aside from the fact you are back to claiming God is paying his own debt, you're also ignoring that God isn't physical and you are worshiping the physical entity. Not to mention all the statues and everything else.
Posted on 8/29/26 at 2:09 pm to Boom33
To borrow from dimtards in the chinavirus era. No one is safe until islam is designated a terrorist organization.
Posted on 8/29/26 at 2:16 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Give me an example of one explanation you've provided. You have only asserted things and provided no reasoning for your assertions. So no, you have not shown that anything I said is false. As I said previously, you've basically said "nuh uh", without providing any reasoning for why that is. You have just emoted, saying you don't like what has been said. You don't like the God of the Bible. You reject His justice. You reject His mercy. You reject eternal life through Jesus Christ. However, you have not said why He's actually unjust or unmerciful, but have rather resorted to straw man arguments, misrepresenting what the Bible teaches in order to paint God in a bad light. You aren't engaging with what the Bible teaches, even while you reject what you claim the Bible teaches.
You literally do it right here.
I have told you over and over EXACTLY why I find your version to be evil. You just started to trying to pretend like I had no morals or any foundation to make such judgements on.
You then constantly assume that my disagreement is in that everyone is going to heaven and what not and I just don't like it.
So let me say it plainly - Most people ARE NOT going to heaven. You are NOT going to heaven.
That doesn't mean you are going to hell either (at least not for eternity), a concept which is pure ignorance and for the sole purpose of fear mongering.
But let me repeat, you do NOT get automatic forgiveness, you are NOT going to heaven.
You worship the God of this world, Satan.
quote:
I don't believe you and you have given me no reason to do so.
I'm not trying to start a religion or looking for followers, either. However I do want you to be saved.
If you thought I were wrong, wouldn't you want me to know what is right? If there is no salvation in whatever it is you believe, then there's no point in me, or even you, believing it. If we can just wander our entire lives and learn whatever we want until we die, then what's the point of your beliefs?
There are eternal consequences to sin, though, which is why it's important for you to turn from your sins right now and believe in Jesus Christ for forgiveness and eternal life. There is no second chance once you die.
I don't need for you to believe me. You are the one constantly telling me to join your religion, although really at this point I think you are mostly trying to convince yourself.
You do not seek salvation or forgiveness; you seek a blind eye which you call a pardon and free gift.
For those who actually seek forgiveness, it is given. That is not you. You have no idea how the path works, because you reject the path in exchange for the lie of a free pardon.
quote:
All you did was make claims of your own in response. You're acting as if you made some good, probing questions to lead me to a rational position away from what I believe, but you did no such thing. You didn't question God, you rejected Him. You said He was evil. Don't downplay what you've been doing.
I told you why what you said is bullshite. The only justification you have come up with is "It's God and it's by default just". You even tried to claim God burning people in hell for eternity glorified his mercy. As if the punishment of others is even needed.
You keep making all these claims out of dogma because you have to figure out a way to justify other claims you've made.
Posted on 8/31/26 at 11:51 am to Boom33
quote:A claim without support is an assertion, and if you agree with the claim, it's a personally-held belief.
I haven't posted beliefs.
quote:I've provided logical reasoning for what I believe regarding the nature of morality. You haven't even done that, and you haven't even argued against my premises or conclusions. You've just stated disagreement.
You have done none of this. All you do is claim everything is moral because God said so and other forms of dogma.
You either cannot justify your position or you are being lazy.
quote:Smelling is a sense. "Feeling" isn't (unless you're talking about touch, but based on the context, it doesn't seem like you are).
You think having senses is the same as emotions? What a stupid thing to say.
quote:I tried to make it easy for you by linking to a few different places where the explanation is given. There is no inherent logical contradiction at all. I just think you are struggling with the concept of logic at this point. You certainly aren't trying to use it to support your positions.
They are logically contradictory. And I'm unsure why you keep claiming you are demonstrating things when you've done nothing of the sort. You keep repeating the same few lies over and over.
quote:First, I am providing arguments. I'm providing premises and conclusions. You are not contradicting my premises or conclusions with any premised-based conclusions of your own, but are merely asserting that I'm wrong.
You do not provide arguments; you make claims that by default anything you say is true because you claim it is of God. You claim that is reason.
I refuse to do the same and I refuse to accept your dogma and for that reason you keep claiming
Second, yes you are refusing to do the same thing as me: you are refusing to present argumentation for what you are claiming. You are just making claims.
Lastly, you have your own dogma that you are providing, and you need to get a dictionary.
quote:False. I worship the triune God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I reject Satan as a deceiver and the father of all liars, like you. You may be lying because you are deceived by your father, Satan, but you still need to repent and put your faith in the one who is The Truth: Jesus Christ.
You're a liar and you worship Satan.
quote:"a coherent series of reasons, statements, or facts intended to support or establish a point of view" LINK
And now the 100th claim that you've done something you have not. I'm not sure you remotely understand what rational arguemnt is.
quote:That was an example of how a term may be redefined entirely and then claimed it's a context change instead of a redefinition. I'm claiming you are redefining terms.
I'm not even sure what the frick you are talking about here. At what point did I ever call self defense murder?
quote:My argumentation is throughout my posts. Your childish language about the Bible doesn't change that.
And then you follow it up with more marketing material. Is this what you are claiming is your rational arguments?
quote:You are condemning the conclusion (saying it's untrue) without attacking the premises. You aren't actually engaging with what I've been saying, but only negating it with the equivalent of "nuh uh". You need to do better.
It's not a reasonable explanation because none of it is true. It's an excuse because you are just telling me why you don't care that it's not true.
quote:You haven't shown that you've received your positions from reason. You haven't even proven that reason exists in your worldview. You are just assuming it. I've at least grounded the existence of reason in biblical Christianity (the biblical God upholds reason through His consistent and reliable mind and will, and reason reflects that).
It's impossible to reason with someone who didn't get their positions from reason. It's not my fault and there is nothing I can do about it. Jesus couldn't fix that in people either, nobody can.
This is just another example of "nuh uh". Show your work. Don't be lazy.
Posted on 8/31/26 at 12:29 pm to The Boat
There’s pockets of Islam that are straight up terrorist
They carry out the guerilla style attacks for their religious objectives which is to eradicate the earth of the great satan
They carry out the guerilla style attacks for their religious objectives which is to eradicate the earth of the great satan
Posted on 8/31/26 at 12:44 pm to Boom33
quote:I don't pretend like they all agree with everything, but total agreement isn't necessary.
This is a lie. There are many different versions that different Christians believe. If you weren't attacking me, you'd be attacking them.
Why do you need to pretend like they all agree?
Why do you say I'm attacking you? You said things I thought were wrong, and I went about correcting you. That isn't an attack. I've been providing reasoned responses to your claims.
quote:Paul confirmed what Jesus taught, and Peter agreed that Paul's writings were "scripture". What is Scripture is God-breathed, and that includes Jesus' words that have been recorded. So in that sense, Jesus' words and Paul's words are of equal authority, because they are both "scripture".
You are a follower of Paul, not Jesus
Paul said to imitate him just as he imitates Christ. Jesus is the standard, but Paul was an apostle of Jesus. Your rejection of Jesus' apostles is a rejection of Jesus, Himself.
quote:Wrong. Jesus' primary message was about Him being the Messiah, coming to set free those who are enslaved by sin. What you described is what many call a "social gospel", which is focused on the here and now. Jesus' primary focus was on repentance of sin and faith in Him for forgiveness for sins. Jesus taught consistently with the Old Testament law, particularlly summarizing the 10 commands with loving God and loving neighbor. Paul taught the same thing.
General Message:
Jesus: The Kingdom of God. Jesus focused on a radical restructuring of society here on earth, uplifting the poor and flipping social hierarchies.
Paul: The Theology of Christ. Paul focused almost exclusively on Jesus' death, resurrection, and how an individual gets to heaven through faith.
quote:Jesus said that people should pay their taxes, giving to Caesar what belongs to him. He was executed by Rome for a false charge of political rebellion, and Jesus, Himself, said that His kingdom is not of this world.
View of the State:
Jesus: Subversive & Resistant. Jesus mocked King Herod (calling him "that fox") and was ultimately executed by Rome as a political rebel for claiming to be a King
Paul: Submissive & Obedient. Paul commanded believers to submit to the government, stating that "the authorities that exist have been established by God" (Romans 13:1).
quote:Jesus didn't flip the rules. He upheld the law perfectly. What He rejected was the sinful application of the law. He healed on the Sabbath but referenced the Old Testament law regarding rescuing an animal on the Sabbath, among other things.
Religious Law & Practice:
Jesus: Flipping the Rules. Jesus constantly broke Sabbath rules, touched the unclean, and fiercely condemned the Pharisees for being rigid, hypocritical rule-makers.
Paul: Pharisaic Structure. Paul brought back intense rules regarding church hierarchy, modesty, head coverings, and how women should behave in assembly.
quote:No he doesn't. And yes, he did meet the living, resurrected Jesus (Acts 9, 1 Cor 15).
Paul, who never met the living Jesus, completely shifts the focus
quote:"Almost never".. that's quite the qualifier. He most certainly does quote, summarize, or reference Jesus' earthly teachings and commands, such as Jesus' teaching on divorce, paying gospel ministers, and the institution of the Lord's Supper.
Paul almost never quotes Jesus’ earthly teachings, parables, or ethical commands.
Even so, Paul's purpose was instruction to the churches, not a biography of Jesus. His teachings are consistent with Jesus'.
quote:Are you friends with Squirrelmeister? I didn't think I'd ever meet someone who took a mythicist position, much less two on the same forum.
Instead, Paul focuses entirely on Jesus as a cosmic, divine sacrifice.
If you are taking that position, that's simply false. I've spent a lot of time and energy refuting that with Squirrelmeister, so I'd rather not start over with you, but Paul refers to Jesus' birth, life, death, resurrection, and ascension to the right hand of the Father. Jesus is very human in Paul's teaching, as well as very God.
quote:You clearly misunderstand what Paul was saying. He was saying that God is sovereign over all authorities, no matter if they are earthly or spiritual.
Further proof you worship Satan:
Jesus says:
John 12:31: "Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince (ruler) of this world will be driven out."
John 14:30: "I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming. He has no claim on me."
John 16:11: "...the ruler of this world stands condemned."
Paul says Satan is the god of this age and teaches submission to the state - which he claims God has placed.
Romans 13:1: "Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God."
To summarize: you are wrongfully pitting Jesus and Paul based on cherry-picked verses that don't actually say in context what you want them to say, and you are ignoring other verses that actually show alignment between Jesus and Paul.
You aren't a Christian, don't have an understanding of Christian teaching, and are claiming things about the Christian religion that are simply false.
And no, I don't worship Satan, but you clearly have been deceived by him.
Posted on 8/31/26 at 1:01 pm to Boom33
quote:Yes, cherry picking. You didn't show where the text associates those events with a purposeful sun god narrative. You are looking at two events out of many to prove a direct connection without anything linking them. You'd have to first show where the crown of thorns and walking on water actually were originated elsewhere, and then you would have to make the direct connection to the disciples of Jesus making that same claim (that He is a son god). Otherwise you are just looking for similarities and making a claim of association without evidence.
So your response to me showing you where things were based on other religions is to claim those things are cherry picking?
I guess that's another word you don't understand the meaning of.
quote:God has no debt. Humans have debt. It's important to be clear here, because you keep misrepresenting the actual Christian position.
God is in fact paying his own debt by your own claims as I originally said.
Jesus, the Son, paid the sin-debt owed by humans, to the Father, who is owed that sin-debt.
So no, God did not pay His own debt.
The Son paid the debt that was owed to the Father by sinful humans. That's different than what you've been saying.
quote:God is not paying His own debt. See above. It's important that you understand this, since I've explained it multiple times to you now.
Aside from the fact you are back to claiming God is paying his own debt, you're also ignoring that God isn't physical and you are worshiping the physical entity. Not to mention all the statues and everything else.
God in His essence is a spirit, but the Son has taken on a human nature, including a physical body. That physical body does not take away from His spiritual essence. Also, His physical glorified body is not a "spiritual body", which is unclear what exactly that means, but His human body acts somewhat differently than our entirely physical bodies. Jesus' human nature does not take away from His divine nature. Therefore, to worship Jesus is not idolatry, because He is still divine and one person of the one godhead.
Also, you keep talking about the statues, cross necklaces, and all that, but I actually think those things are violations of the 2nd commandment, and I do not have any pictures of "Jesus" (we don't know what He looks like exactly), and so on.
Posted on 8/31/26 at 1:32 pm to The Boat
quote:
Passing a law designating Islam as a political movementby The Boat
Then passing a law to make the political movement of Islam illegal
I wrote a post on another thread here this weekend. I agree there is a way to do this but it takes religion out of it. If you argue over religion there will never be a consensus.
The case to be made is based on human rights, calls to violence, Islamic revolutionaries, and Islamic states that ban or illegalize the practice of other religions. These basic foundations of Islamics is counter to US and western cultures and they should not be given an opportunity to spread this ideology.
They way to stop this in the US is by banning the organizing of Islamic gatherings, events. People could still practice their Muslim faith, they however would not be able to do so as a congregated group in any fashion. No Mosques, no Islamic schools, no Islamic communities, no Islamic housing, no Islamic anything.
This would be enforced through US tax code, US state department directive of Islamic state terrorist designations, and DOJ national defense directive. The order would be in place until Islamic states recognize and accept the practice of other faiths.
As long as the Islamic states ban other faiths, they are not recognized by the US as a faith. They are a national threat and should not be allowed to organize in the US.
This post was edited on 8/31/26 at 1:38 pm
Posted on 8/31/26 at 1:52 pm to fwtex
quote:
They way to stop this in the US is by banning the organizing of Islamic gatherings, events. People could still practice their Muslim faith, they however would not be able to do so as a congregated group in any fashion. No Mosques, no Islamic schools, no Islamic communities, no Islamic housing, no Islamic anything.
This would be enforced through US tax code, US state department directive of Islamic state terrorist designations, and DOJ national defense directive. The order would be in place until Islamic states recognize and accept the practice of other faiths.
Pretty much using the same techniques deployed against the KKK. Infiltration, IRS audits, counter-intelligence, etc.
Posted on 8/31/26 at 2:27 pm to Boom33
quote:You didn't provide reasons for it. You just said you didn't like it. You didn't ground your dislike in anything other than, what I can only assume is, your opinion.
You literally do it right here.
I have told you over and over EXACTLY why I find your version to be evil.
Simply saying God is evil for doing something doesn't mean He is. I can call you evil for having the user name Boom33, but unless I ground that in something concrete, it's just me giving my opinion. That's what you're doing: giving your opinion. That's all.
quote:I didn't say anything about you not having morals. I said you had no foundation for your morals. That's a big difference.
You just started to trying to pretend like I had no morals or any foundation to make such judgements on.
I've noticed that you are becoming increasingly sloppy in your attempts to state my positions.
quote:I don't think your disagreement is in the number of people going to heaven. It's in the basis for anyone going to heaven.
You then constantly assume that my disagreement is in that everyone is going to heaven and what not and I just don't like it.
quote:That's your belief, or your "dogma", if you will. You believe that to be true based on what else you believe to be true. Perhaps you should explain why you believe that.
So let me say it plainly - Most people ARE NOT going to heaven. You are NOT going to heaven.
quote:You seem to be admitting here that something called "hell" exists in some form or fashion, and that I'm either not going there or not going there for forever, which means I could go there. If I could go there, then how might one avoid that? And if it does exist, and it is unpleasant, and it is something to be avoided, then how is you telling me how to avoid it not also a concept of pure ignorance and fear mongering?
That doesn't mean you are going to hell either (at least not for eternity), a concept which is pure ignorance and for the sole purpose of fear mongering.
Christians telling others about hell is not "fear mongering". A "fearmonger" is someone who needlessly spreads fear and alarm. "Needlessly" is the key word there, since a person shouting that a house is on fire and all occupants should leave immediately or risk death isn't a fearmonger, but is sharing caution out of concern. That's what Christians do. We are telling you that you're in a burning building and you need to get out, and you are saying we're fearmongers.
quote:Why are you upset at God not automatically granting forgiveness to people all over the world who have not heard the gospel message and believed it, then? You also believe that people are barred from some sort of good (?) eternal state for something that they aren't aware they are supposed to do or learn. You said before that this life is about learning, but how does anyone know that, or what the right things are to learn? Is it not unfair for people to be denied heaven because they haven't had the same revelation from "god" that you have?
But let me repeat, you do NOT get automatic forgiveness, you are NOT going to heaven.
quote:I do not. I worship God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
You worship the God of this world, Satan.
Your father is Satan because you reject Christ the Son of God.
Posted on 8/31/26 at 6:11 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
A claim without support is an assertion, and if you agree with the claim, it's a personally-held belief.
You posted your beliefs, I debunked them.
quote:
I've provided logical reasoning for what I believe regarding the nature of morality. You haven't even done that, and you haven't even argued against my premises or conclusions. You've just stated disagreement.
You either cannot justify your position or you are being lazy.
No, you haven't. Your "logical reasoning" is just to claim the bible is the word of God and anything God does is by default just.
quote:
Smelling is a sense. "Feeling" isn't (unless you're talking about touch, but based on the context, it doesn't seem like you are).
Is feeling pain something you would call emotional? Kind of hard to torture someone for all of eternity if they can't feel anything.
quote:
I tried to make it easy for you by linking to a few different places where the explanation is given. There is no inherent logical contradiction at all. I just think you are struggling with the concept of logic at this point. You certainly aren't trying to use it to support your position
Genesis has 2 different creation stories, they don't agree with each other and neither of them is correct.
This means your God is 0-2 on how the universe is created, and all you can do is offer "What God actually meant" excuses.
quote:
First, I am providing arguments. I'm providing premises and conclusions. You are not contradicting my premises or conclusions with any premised-based conclusions of your own, but are merely asserting that I'm wrong.
Second, yes you are refusing to do the same thing as me: you are refusing to present argumentation for what you are claiming. You are just making claims.
Lastly, you have your own dogma that you are providing, and you need to get a dictionary.
Again, I do not need to offer alternatives, of which you are incapable of understanding anyway, in order to debunk your claims. AI has more understanding than you do.
quote:
False. I worship the triune God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I reject Satan as a deceiver and the father of all liars, like you. You may be lying because you are deceived by your father, Satan, but you still need to repent and put your faith in the one who is The Truth: Jesus Christ.
You do not know any of the things you list here, and you are incapable of recognizing them when you see them.
quote:
"a coherent series of reasons, statements, or facts intended to support or establish a point of view" LINK
Are you saying every argument is rational?
quote:
That was an example of how a term may be redefined entirely and then claimed it's a context change instead of a redefinition. I'm claiming you are redefining terms.
What term did I redefine and why didn't you just say that instead of some weird nonsense?
If it's the word murder, are you just trying to say it's not murder because the government killing people is "lawful" and murder is a legal term? I call it murder because I do not recognize such authorities, nor is what they did lawful under God.
quote:
My argumentation is throughout my posts. Your childish language about the Bible doesn't change that.
You keep putting in marketing responses even if you lack the understanding of why they are marketing responses.
quote:
You are condemning the conclusion (saying it's untrue) without attacking the premises. You aren't actually engaging with what I've been saying, but only negating it with the equivalent of "nuh uh". You need to do better.
I give a reason for everything. I do not offer an alternative. Just like Genesis above, I've given you the same reason over and over. There are 2 lists, they do not agree with each other, and neither of them is correct.
I told you exactly why your God isn't just. Creates people, offers them no hope at salvation and then they spend eternity in hell being tortured as a result. Even babies.
Over and over. But then you just do shite like this because you can't defend it. Or try to pretend like I have no moral basis without some authority to cite in response.
quote:
You haven't shown that you've received your positions from reason. You haven't even proven that reason exists in your worldview. You are just assuming it. I've at least grounded the existence of reason in biblical Christianity (the biblical God upholds reason through His consistent and reliable mind and will, and reason reflects that).
This is just another example of "nuh uh". Show your work. Don't be lazy.
I don't need to show ANYTHING to prove you wrong. By "Show your work" you mean - give you links to the documents you believe I accepted. Because you think I lack real understanding the same way you do and that is the only way anything is possible.
You have replaced God with a book written by men and choose by men for the purpose of supporting the very system Jesus fought against for thousands of years. You worship Satan, you have no understanding because understanding makes you immune to the deception.
If you had actual understanding you would be able to look at the bible in the same manner you would look at a math test. You'd be able to read it and say - well that's bullshite, well that's true. You'd understand what an archetype is and what the purpose is. You'd never in a million-years idol worship because it's about like a math professor worshipping the equation 1+1 and then wearing an eraser around his neck.
Do you know what a noetic experience is? What kind of book do you think that comes with?
Posted on 8/31/26 at 7:12 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
I don't pretend like they all agree with everything, but total agreement isn't necessary.
Why do you say I'm attacking you? You said things I thought were wrong, and I went about correcting you. That isn't an attack. I've been providing reasoned responses to your claims.
You have only requirement - that they believe Jesus died on the cross and paid your debt.
You will claim anyone who doesn't agree to that isn't Chrsitian.
quote:
Paul confirmed what Jesus taught, and Peter agreed that Paul's writings were "scripture". What is Scripture is God-breathed, and that includes Jesus' words that have been recorded. So in that sense, Jesus' words and Paul's words are of equal authority, because they are both "scripture".
Paul said to imitate him just as he imitates Christ. Jesus is the standard, but Paul was an apostle of Jesus. Your rejection of Jesus' apostles is a rejection of Jesus, Himself.
Peter did no such thing. Peter hated Paul. So did James and the other disciples.
And once again, the only thing that actually matters to you is the sacrifice. Everything else is just proof it was "the right sacrifice".
quote:
Wrong. Jesus' primary message was about Him being the Messiah, coming to set free those who are enslaved by sin. What you described is what many call a "social gospel", which is focused on the here and now. Jesus' primary focus was on repentance of sin and faith in Him for forgiveness for sins. Jesus taught consistently with the Old Testament law, particularlly summarizing the 10 commands with loving God and loving neighbor. Paul taught the same thing.
Like I said, all you care about is the sacrifice and everything else is just your proof on having the right sacrifice.
quote:
Jesus said that people should pay their taxes, giving to Caesar what belongs to him. He was executed by Rome for a false charge of political rebellion, and Jesus, Himself, said that His kingdom is not of this world.
That statement means the opposite of what you claim. That is the Pauline claim which ignores the context and purpose of what was said.
He said it in response to a trap the Pharisees were trying to catch him in. If he said to pay them, then the Jewish people would reject him. If he said don't pay it, he would have been arrested on the spot, punishable by death.
He instead bypasses the false dilemma by pointing out the coin had Ceaser on it and was thus an idolatrous piece of metal. Thus, saying it belongs to his corrupt system anyway.
He then says render to God what is Gods.
So, what does that mean? What is the only thing stamped in the image of God?
But Paul and you turn it into straight submission to Rome. He was calling it irrelevant, and it still holds true today. Do you understand how worthless the dollar in your pocket actually is? Because we have the same corrupt systems in place.
quote:
Jesus didn't flip the rules. He upheld the law perfectly. What He rejected was the sinful application of the law. He healed on the Sabbath but referenced the Old Testament law regarding rescuing an animal on the Sabbath, among other things.
You mean he flipped the rules of what they were considered to be at the time just as I said.
quote:
No he doesn't. And yes, he did meet the living, resurrected Jesus (Acts 9, 1 Cor 15).
It's a lie and an obvious one at that. The entire book of acts is a public relation lie trying to turn Paul into an authority equal to the others.
quote:
"Almost never".. that's quite the qualifier. He most certainly does quote, summarize, or reference Jesus' earthly teachings and commands, such as Jesus' teaching on divorce, paying gospel ministers, and the institution of the Lord's Supper.
Even so, Paul's purpose was instruction to the churches, not a biography of Jesus. His teachings are consistent with Jesus'.
You mean Pauls purpose is to turn Jesus into an idol and to have people worship the sacrifice rather than his teachings.
The actual Christians, those who were actually with Jesus, believed you had to keep the commandments. The book of James is basically a rebuttal to Paul and his bullshite claims.
quote:
Are you friends with Squirrelmeister? I didn't think I'd ever meet someone who took a mythicist position, much less two on the same forum.
If you are taking that position, that's simply false. I've spent a lot of time and energy refuting that with Squirrelmeister, so I'd rather not start over with you, but Paul refers to Jesus' birth, life, death, resurrection, and ascension to the right hand of the Father. Jesus is very human in Paul's teaching, as well as very God.
I don't know that person and you only demand that I get my positions from existing sources because you have no understanding.
You look for God in other men and that is quite silly.
quote:
You clearly misunderstand what Paul was saying. He was saying that God is sovereign over all authorities, no matter if they are earthly or spiritual.
But that's not what he is saying, nor is such a level of reality even being talked about here. I can go up to that level if you want, but then everything else you claim on this level falls a part.
Especially since you claim God puts people in hell for eternity. Are you saying that in addition to him creating people with no chance such as babies, people born before Jesus, people born away from Jesus, God has created Satan to deceive people and get even more people into hell to be tortured for eternity?
Is that the great justice at play again, or is that highlighting Gods mercy?
quote:
To summarize: you are wrongfully pitting Jesus and Paul based on cherry-picked verses that don't actually say in context what you want them to say, and you are ignoring other verses that actually show alignment between Jesus and Paul.
You aren't a Christian, don't have an understanding of Christian teaching, and are claiming things about the Christian religion that are simply false.
And no, I don't worship Satan, but you clearly have been deceived by him.
I'm not a Christian because your standards are low and pathetic. You worship Satan and I want no part of it.
At the end of the day your only requirement for getting into heaven is for someone to claim Jesus is Lord and that his death saves them. A complete lie.
And if that was true, why did Jesus tell people their sins were forgiven before his death? His blood is required, except for those?
This post was edited on 8/31/26 at 7:14 pm
Posted on 8/31/26 at 7:45 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Yes, cherry picking. You didn't show where the text associates those events with a purposeful sun god narrative. You are looking at two events out of many to prove a direct connection without anything linking them. You'd have to first show where the crown of thorns and walking on water actually were originated elsewhere, and then you would have to make the direct connection to the disciples of Jesus making that same claim (that He is a son god). Otherwise you are just looking for similarities and making a claim of association without evidence.
I did.
It goes even further when you look at so called Christian traditions like Christmas - a sun god worship day. Easter which replaced fertility events and so on.
It was all done so Rome could create their unified state religion.
quote:
God has no debt. Humans have debt. It's important to be clear here, because you keep misrepresenting the actual Christian position.
Jesus, the Son, paid the sin-debt owed by humans, to the Father, who is owed that sin-debt.
So no, God did not pay His own debt.
The Son paid the debt that was owed to the Father by sinful humans. That's different than what you've been saying.
Jesus was saving people before his death which is what you claim pays the debt which directly proves your blood claim as bullshite.
Furthermore, the entire concept was created by Paul because he was a Pharisaic legal scholar.
And that also leads to Paul being wrong about "works", which then leads James and the others to call him a fraud.
quote:
God is not paying His own debt. See above. It's important that you understand this, since I've explained it multiple times to you now.
Jesus only talks about forgiving debts, not him paying them.
And there is actually a way this is done, you have to ask for forgiveness. You do not do that; you believe in the sacrifice instead which allows you a blind eye while claiming you are saved in blood.
quote:
God in His essence is a spirit, but the Son has taken on a human nature, including a physical body. That physical body does not take away from His spiritual essence. Also, His physical glorified body is not a "spiritual body", which is unclear what exactly that means, but His human body acts somewhat differently than our entirely physical bodies. Jesus' human nature does not take away from His divine nature. Therefore, to worship Jesus is not idolatry, because He is still divine and one person of the one godhead.
Claiming a limitation doesn't take away from the unlimited is logically false.
Furthermore, it's not even just Jesus you idolize, it's Jesus on the cross dying for your "free gift".
Posted on 8/31/26 at 8:37 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
You didn't provide reasons for it. You just said you didn't like it. You didn't ground your dislike in anything other than, what I can only assume is, your opinion.
Simply saying God is evil for doing something doesn't mean He is. I can call you evil for having the user name Boom33, but unless I ground that in something concrete, it's just me giving my opinion. That's what you're doing: giving your opinion. That's all.
You are basically claiming that God can do the same actions as Satan and it's good because "God" and bad because "Satan". Not based on the actions themselves, not based on the fruits of those actions, but based only on who you believe is doing them.
This is nothing more than a might makes right claim. Which I guess is how you can try to pretend me naming specific things like torturing babies with just you randomly claiming my name is evil.
But even the evil man gives good gifts to his children. Which Jesus points out and says - how much more will your father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask.
And you are completely at odds with the OT. They did not preach this crap.
Ezekiel 18 completely destroys your claim of original sin bullshite. So does Jesus in Matthew 19.
quote:
I didn't say anything about you not having morals. I said you had no foundation for your morals. That's a big difference.
I've noticed that you are becoming increasingly sloppy in your attempts to state my positions.
What foundations would you say could exist for my morals? You are against just making appeals to authority to try and say - I must get my morals from some book because you did.
It's bullshite and only demonstrates you have a lack of understanding. It's like someone doing math and you demanding what book they learned it from.
quote:
I don't think your disagreement is in the number of people going to heaven. It's in the basis for anyone going to heaven.
Method. Your claims are bullshite.
quote:
That's your belief, or your "dogma", if you will. You believe that to be true based on what else you believe to be true. Perhaps you should explain why you believe that.
It's not a belief, it's an understanding. Do you believe 1+1=2 or do you understand 1+1=2?
God/Kingdom of God is within. But you only look in other men for him. You will never find him, you will never drop your dogma, you will never become like a child. You will not do the things required of you. You believe you found God in a book(other men), and that prevents it.
Now many you will change one day, I don't know. But the most likely outcome is you just go back and cease to exist separately. To die the 2nd death. Go back to source, whatever you want to call it. That's NOT being tortured in hell forever or any of that other nonsense which serves no purpose.
quote:
You seem to be admitting here that something called "hell" exists in some form or fashion, and that I'm either not going there or not going there for forever, which means I could go there. If I could go there, then how might one avoid that? And if it does exist, and it is unpleasant, and it is something to be avoided, then how is you telling me how to avoid it not also a concept of pure ignorance and fear mongering?
Christians telling others about hell is not "fear mongering". A "fearmonger" is someone who needlessly spreads fear and alarm. "Needlessly" is the key word there, since a person shouting that a house is on fire and all occupants should leave immediately or risk death isn't a fearmonger, but is sharing caution out of concern. That's what Christians do. We are telling you that you're in a burning building and you need to get out, and you are saying we're fearmongers.
Whose world do you think this is?
It's a question of how deep you will go.
Christians like you make up a fake place and claim it's for eternity unless they join your religion. That is fear mongering.
quote:
Why are you upset at God not automatically granting forgiveness to people all over the world who have not heard the gospel message and believed it, then? You also believe that people are barred from some sort of good (?) eternal state for something that they aren't aware they are supposed to do or learn. You said before that this life is about learning, but how does anyone know that, or what the right things are to learn? Is it not unfair for people to be denied heaven because they haven't had the same revelation from "god" that you have?
I'm not even remotely upset with the real God. There are very good reasons why things are the way they are. You just say stupid crap.
Everything I have is available to anyone who seeks it. You do not seek it and thus it is not unfair that you do not have it.
quote:
I do not. I worship God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
Your father is Satan because you reject Christ the Son of God.
You don't know or understand any of these things you speak of.
Posted on 8/31/26 at 8:41 pm to Boom33
quote:
I haven't posted beliefs.
no need. this thread paints a clear picture for us.
Posted on 9/1/26 at 12:41 am to Boom33
quote:Debunked? That would require argumentation. You just said my beliefs were wrong. Is that all it takes to "debunk" something?
You posted your beliefs, I debunked them.
quote:Stop lying about me and go read what I wrote. I've spent a lot of time being specific about what I believe and why, not just saying what I believe but why I believe it. You have not.
No, you haven't. Your "logical reasoning" is just to claim the bible is the word of God and anything God does is by default just.
quote:Feeling pain is a way of saying you experience the sensation of pain. Physical pain is not an emotion but a physiological response.
Is feeling pain something you would call emotional? Kind of hard to torture someone for all of eternity if they can't feel anything.
I think you were misunderstanding me, here. I wasn't talking about feeling pain, but your first use of the word "feel":
It's not my fault when pointing out how you would feel about a person who created billions of people, giving them senses and things to feel pain, just so I could then use that pain to torture them for eternity you claim it's justified because "God".
The word I was responding to is in bold.
quote:There are not two different creation stories. I've explained this multiple times now, so you are just being obstinate. Christians have historically understood these to be complimentary accounts, not contradictory ones. You take the contradictory approach as a God-denier because you want any excuse to reject the Bible as true.
Genesis has 2 different creation stories, they don't agree with each other and neither of them is correct.
This means your God is 0-2 on how the universe is created, and all you can do is offer "What God actually meant" excuses.
quote:You need to justify your use of reason, yes. And you haven't debunked anything. See above: you've only made assertions. You haven't made arguments, and you certainly haven't provided support for your claims.
Again, I do not need to offer alternatives, of which you are incapable of understanding anyway, in order to debunk your claims. AI has more understanding than you do.
quote:I know of those things because they have been revealed through God's word in the Bible and by His Spirit of understanding.
You do not know any of the things you list here, and you are incapable of recognizing them when you see them.
You sound like a gnostic with your special knowledge.
quote:No, but you have to start somewhere. You aren't providing any argument whatsoever, rational or otherwise. You are only making assertions without any support, then claiming you are "debunking" me. It's laughable.
Are you saying every argument is rational?
quote:I used the word "murder" only as an example of what I was talking about. I didn't claim you were redefining that word.
What term did I redefine and why didn't you just say that instead of some weird nonsense?
If it's the word murder, are you just trying to say it's not murder because the government killing people is "lawful" and murder is a legal term? I call it murder because I do not recognize such authorities, nor is what they did lawful under God.
In regard to what you were redefining: you were redefining the words "dogma" and "feel", at least. You also seem to be making up your own definition of the word "debunk" and "argument". It's why I've had to resort to linking to actual dictionary definitions.
quote:I understand why you keep using that false term about the Bible. You think the Bible doesn't count as a support for anything, and that when I quote it, it's no different than quoting from a marketing pamphlet for some self-help group. You are wrong about that, and instead of trying to support your claims, you have resorted to ridicule. You are acting childish.
You keep putting in marketing responses even if you lack the understanding of why they are marketing responses.
quote:No, you don't, as I keep pointing out.
I give a reason for everything.
quote:Correct. You think you can take unsupported potshots and be safe from response. I think it's cowardly, but even so, you aren't safe, because no one is neutral. You have exposed yourself already in this thread, and have shown that you are an alter who believes in a gnostic alternative about learning in life with secret revelation given to only the special, like yourself.
I do not offer an alternative.
quote:See above. The shot at Genesis is the only argument you've actually given, and it's still wrong.
Just like Genesis above, I've given you the same reason over and over. There are 2 lists, they do not agree with each other, and neither of them is correct.
quote:Again, this isn't an argument. It's you emoting.
I told you exactly why your God isn't just. Creates people, offers them no hope at salvation and then they spend eternity in hell being tortured as a result. Even babies.
You have yet to provide justification for why you think spending eternity in hell being tortured is evil. You've only said it is. That's what I keep telling you.
quote:I've given you actual definitions of words like "justice", and explained how that works for God. You haven't disputed anything I've said about that, only that you don't agree. You need to show how my premises are incorrect if you want to argue against my conclusion.
Over and over. But then you just do shite like this because you can't defend it. Or try to pretend like I have no moral basis without some authority to cite in response.
quote:You do, because even your criticisms have smuggled in assumptions that you have not defended. You merely assert some form of morality without justifying why I anyone should agree with it.
I don't need to show ANYTHING to prove you wrong.
quote:You can link to something or just summarize your argumentation. You haven't done anything but made assertions, which is why I keep saying "prove it", and "show your work". You don't accept any mere claims I make, but you want me to accept yours.
By "Show your work" you mean - give you links to the documents you believe I accepted. Because you think I lack real understanding the same way you do and that is the only way anything is possible.
quote:False, again. I have not replaced God with a book any more than I replace my wife with her text messages. I value her texts because they are her words. I value the Bible because it is God's word. It is God that give His words value, not the other way around.
You have replaced God with a book written by men and choose by men for the purpose of supporting the very system Jesus fought against for thousands of years. You worship Satan, you have no understanding because understanding makes you immune to the deception.
quote:You are talking about different truth claims. You have to examine and judge them according to the claims. God's word is not like a math test. That's precisely why you don't understand it.
If you had actual understanding you would be able to look at the bible in the same manner you would look at a math test. You'd be able to read it and say - well that's bullshite, well that's true. You'd understand what an archetype is and what the purpose is. You'd never in a million-years idol worship because it's about like a math professor worshipping the equation 1+1 and then wearing an eraser around his neck.
quote:Yes, I know what that is. It's a feeling of understanding based on subjective experience. It cannot be supported outside the person claiming the experience.
Do you know what a noetic experience is? What kind of book do you think that comes with?
That's why the revelation of the Bible always came with miraculous signs.
Posted on 9/1/26 at 1:13 am to Boom33
quote:Basically, yeah. That's pretty fundamental to Christianity. Muslims believe in Jesus as a prophet, but they don't believe He is the God-man who died on the cross. It's a big differentiator between Christianity and Islam, as well as all other religions. Christianity isn't whatever anyone wants it to be.
You have only requirement - that they believe Jesus died on the cross and paid your debt.
You will claim anyone who doesn't agree to that isn't Chrsitian
quote:2 Peter 3:16. Go look it up.
Peter did no such thing. Peter hated Paul. So did James and the other disciples.
And no, James and the other disciples didn't hate him. There's no evidence that they did. The only biblical evidence is that Paul was accepted by them.
quote:The sacrifice of Jesus is central to the gospel message. Without the shedding of blood, sin is not atoned for. It's what the Old Testament sacrifices pointed towards. It's even what happened in the garden of Eden. God shed the blood of animals to make skins to cover Adam and Eve's nakedness as a symbol of covering their sin.
And once again, the only thing that actually matters to you is the sacrifice. Everything else is just proof it was "the right sacrifice".
quote:Nope. You're talking to a Christian who has studied his Bible. You are anti-Christian with clear ignorance of the Bible. I think I know what it says. You don't even believe what the Bible says about Jesus, anyway. You think he was some myth.
That statement means the opposite of what you claim. That is the Pauline claim which ignores the context and purpose of what was said.
quote:Well that's one interpretation
He said it in response to a trap the Pharisees were trying to catch him in. If he said to pay them, then the Jewish people would reject him. If he said don't pay it, he would have been arrested on the spot, punishable by death.
He instead bypasses the false dilemma by pointing out the coin had Ceaser on it and was thus an idolatrous piece of metal. Thus, saying it belongs to his corrupt system anyway.
He then says render to God what is Gods.
So, what does that mean? What is the only thing stamped in the image of God?
What you said isn't in the text. Jesus could have destroyed the coin as an "idolatrous piece of metal", but instead He said to use it to pay taxes since it belongs to Caesar.
quote:Paul followed Jesus' example and said that Christians should obey the civil magistrate. Peter said the same thing (1 Pet. 2:13, 17).
But Paul and you turn it into straight submission to Rome. He was calling it irrelevant, and it still holds true today. Do you understand how worthless the dollar in your pocket actually is? Because we have the same corrupt systems in place.
quote:The rules were what God commanded. The Pharisees were the ones who flipped the rules. Jesus flipped them back to what they always were.
You mean he flipped the rules of what they were considered to be at the time just as I said.
You are making Jesus out to be some sort of rebel who hated authority. Even the instance of Jesus flipping the tables was due to Him upholding the holiness of the Temple against the abuses of the money changers and priests who deviated from what the Scriptures taught. Jesus was a reformer, not some anti-authority revolutionary.
quote:So you disagree with Luke? He wrote both the Gospel of Luke and the Acts of the Apostles.
It's a lie and an obvious one at that. The entire book of acts is a public relation lie trying to turn Paul into an authority equal to the others.
I find it funny that you are now picking and choosing which books of the Bible to support. You quote from one book when it works for you and then reject another when it doesn't. That's the definition of cherry-picking.
quote:An idol? Jesus accepted worship in the Gospel accounts, and took the honor, attributes, names, deeds, and seat of God in the Gospel narratives. You have been lied to. Study the Bible for yourself.
You mean Pauls purpose is to turn Jesus into an idol and to have people worship the sacrifice rather than his teachings
quote:You must not have read Paul's writings if you think this is true. His letters are filled with the duties of the Christian. He specifically says in Romans 7:12 that "the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good."
The actual Christians, those who were actually with Jesus, believed you had to keep the commandments. The book of James is basically a rebuttal to Paul and his bullshite claims.
Read the Bible instead of making these ignorant statements.
quote:I demand you give me a reason to believe you. You are making truth claims about understanding, and have done so about the death of truth, or something like that, but haven't given me any reason to believe your truth claims.
I don't know that person and you only demand that I get my positions from existing sources because you have no understanding.
quote:No, I look for God in His exact image, Jesus Christ. God became flesh and dwelt among us (John 1:17). He revealed Himself through Christ, so if I reject Jesus, I reject God, as you have.
You look for God in other men and that is quite silly.
quote:It is what he is saying. You just need to read the Bible instead of looking online for arguments from unbelievers like yourself.
But that's not what he is saying, nor is such a level of reality even being talked about here. I can go up to that level if you want, but then everything else you claim on this level falls a part.
quote:God certainly allows Satan to deceive others for a time, and Satan will be judged for it.
Especially since you claim God puts people in hell for eternity. Are you saying that in addition to him creating people with no chance such as babies, people born before Jesus, people born away from Jesus, God has created Satan to deceive people and get even more people into hell to be tortured for eternity?
No one deserves a chance at salvation. You still haven't understood that part.
quote:Both.
Is that the great justice at play again, or is that highlighting Gods mercy?
quote:These are God's standards, not mine. Jesus said the way is narrow to eternal life and few find it.
I'm not a Christian because your standards are low and pathetic.
quote:You keep lying about that. I've never prayed to or worshipped Satan in my life. I only worship the only live and true God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Whatever this "god" that you claim gave you understanding is, it is no doubt a deceitful spirit. Likely Satan, himself.
You worship Satan and I want no part of it.
quote:Not just claim that Jesus is Lord and His death saves them, but trust in that. Many people can assent to a head knowledge about Jesus without trusting their eternal lives to Him.
At the end of the day your only requirement for getting into heaven is for someone to claim Jesus is Lord and that his death saves them. A complete lie.
It's not a lie. You will surely perish in your sins for eternity if you do not believe. You have no right to say God is unjust when you even reject the free offer of pardon He offers you.
quote:His blood was still required, and He had planned from all eternity to accomplish the payment for that debt. It was so sure to happen that it already counted even beforehand. It's how people were saved before Jesus took on human flesh: they looked forward to the promise God made from the beginning, for the Messiah to come. Their trust in Him is what saved them even before He gave His life.
And if that was true, why did Jesus tell people their sins were forgiven before his death? His blood is required, except for those?
Posted on 9/1/26 at 1:32 am to Boom33
quote:You didn't. You just claimed that those two events were evidence that Christians worshipped a sun god. You didn't support that claim at all. That's been par for the course with you: make a claim, fail to back it up, and then just say you did when challenged.
I did.
quote:The tradition of Christmas didn't start for several hundred years after Christ. You can't take later developments and force them back into the Bible.
It goes even further when you look at so called Christian traditions like Christmas - a sun god worship day. Easter which replaced fertility events and so on.
quote:Same as above. Christianity was well established long before Rome legalized Christianity.
It was all done so Rome could create their unified state religion.
I think you need to read some church history books in addition to the Bible. I'm half expecting you to start quoting some Dan Brown stuff next
quote:The payment was as good as paid because Jesus could not fail in His mission. It was determined from eternity past. That's why God could count it to those with faith before Jesus became a man, because it was as good as paid already.
Jesus was saving people before his death which is what you claim pays the debt which directly proves your blood claim as bullshite.
quote:lol no. The Old Testament pointed to Christ. It's why the Old Testament was quoted so much in the New Testament, and not just by Paul. Just read 1 Peter. He draws on the sacrificial language multiple times to talk about Jesus' atoning death.
Furthermore, the entire concept was created by Paul because he was a Pharisaic legal scholar.
quote:I already discussed this. James didn't call him a fraud (stop making stuff up), and Paul did talk about good works and the duties of Christians to do them. The difference is that Paul doesn't ground the Christian's justification in good works.
And that also leads to Paul being wrong about "works", which then leads James and the others to call him a fraud
quote:He actually said He was going to give His own life as a ransom (normally a payment of money) in Mark 10:45 and Matthew 20:28. In Matthew 26:28, Jesus says His blood will be shed for the remission of sins, which is sacrificial language to pay for sin. There are more verses where Jesus talks about laying down His life for others (sacrificial language intended to take the place of another), but that should suffice to show your ignorance of the Bible.
Jesus only talks about forgiving debts, not him paying them.
quote:Why do you think I didn't ask God for forgiveness? What do you think repentance is? God forgives all who ask for it through Jesus. That's why Jesus said "repent and believe", and Paul said that if we confess our sins (asking for forgiveness), Jesus is faithful and just to forgive our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
And there is actually a way this is done, you have to ask for forgiveness. You do not do that; you believe in the sacrifice instead which allows you a blind eye while claiming you are saved in blood.
Repentance (asking for forgiveness and committing to turn from sin) is part of the process.
quote:You'll have to explain that one.
Claiming a limitation doesn't take away from the unlimited is logically false.
quote:Jesus' dying on the cross is merely the mechanism to accomplish the forgiveness of sins. I don't worship an action. I worship the God-man, Jesus Christ. I worship the trinitarian God: the Father who sent the Son, the Son who willingly went to obey the law and die for sinners, and the Holy Spirit, who applies that salvation through regeneration of the heart.
Furthermore, it's not even just Jesus you idolize, it's Jesus on the cross dying for your "free gift".
If you do not worship Jesus, you do not know the Father, or as Jesus said, "Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him." -John 5:23
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