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re: Passing a law designating Islam as a political movement
Posted on 9/1/26 at 2:07 am to Boom33
Posted on 9/1/26 at 2:07 am to Boom33
quote:Satan does what he does for evil. God does what He does for good. Also, God cannot sin, while Satan can and does.
You are basically claiming that God can do the same actions as Satan and it's good because "God" and bad because "Satan". Not based on the actions themselves, not based on the fruits of those actions, but based only on who you believe is doing them.
God has authority to end whatever life He chooses to, first because He has the authority to as our Creator, and second, because we deserve it. Satan does not have authority to act as he pleases, and in acting wickedly, he is sinning, and will receive God's eternal wrath for it.
quote:"Might makes right" is a claim that anyone can impose their arbitrary moral standards because they have the force to do so. That's not what Christians claim about God. God's morality is not arbitrary, but is necessary based on His perfectly moral character. God cannot change who He is, and therefore cannot change what is morally right. What is right reflects who God is, and God is good. So no, it's not "might makes right" with God.
This is nothing more than a might makes right claim. Which I guess is how you can try to pretend me naming specific things like torturing babies with just you randomly claiming my name is evil.
quote:God does give good gifts. He makes the rain to fall on the wicked and the righteous alike. He gives good things to people who spit in His face. God is good.
But even the evil man gives good gifts to his children. Which Jesus points out and says - how much more will your father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask.
quote:It's all over the OT. It's why the OT is quoted so much in the NT. The OT pointed to the NT.
And you are completely at odds with the OT. They did not preach this crap.
quote:No they don't. Ezekiel 18 speaks of the son being judged by the temporal crimes of the father. It says nothing about imputed sin from Adam.
Ezekiel 18 completely destroys your claim of original sin bullshite. So does Jesus in Matthew 19.
Matthew 19 also doesn't speak to the spiritual state of the children as a whole. Anyway, God, through Paul, taught that the children of believing parents are holy because of the covenantal nature of God (making covenant with households, as can be seen throughout the OT).
Jesus, Himself, said that in order to be saved, one must be "born again". I could teach you all about the doctrines of grace if you wish, but I don't think you actually care about it.
quote:Foundations? You either have arbitrary subjective foundations or you have the foundation of God's moral character, which is the only objective foundation for morality that there is. Since you seem to reject God's revelation and have chosen to accept the lies of Satan in your claimed noetic experience, it seems you have rejected objective morality.
What foundations would you say could exist for my morals? You are against just making appeals to authority to try and say - I must get my morals from some book because you did.
All people are created in the image of God with His law imprinted upon our hearts, so we don't need the Bible to have a sense of right and wrong because we've been programmed to have a sense of it already. We need to the Bible to know how we know what is right and wrong, and to clarify God's standard over and against our perversion of it due to our sin.
quote:You are doing the same thing, it seems. Only, instead of reading God's revelation in a book, you are claiming "God" spoke to you directly. You do realize that the Bible claims to be the written word of God, right? You can think of it like God speaking to you directly, but through writig.
It's bullshite and only demonstrates you have a lack of understanding. It's like someone doing math and you demanding what book they learned it from.
The book can be shared with billions of people. Your personal gnostic revelation can't. You aren't even trying to share it, either. You have been trying to hide your beliefs the entire time, and they've only leaked out a bit here and there.
quote:I disagree. Yours are.
Method. Your claims are bullshite.
See? When you just make an unsupported claim, anyone can do it right back to you.
quote:Understanding is belief. You are trusting that you understand something is true. You are trusting your sense perception and ability to reason. You are trusting that the basis of your understanding is reliable and accurate. You are trusting that truth actually exists. You believe a lot of things that you are smuggling into the word "understanding".
It's not a belief, it's an understanding. Do you believe 1+1=2 or do you understand 1+1=2?
quote:Says who?
God/Kingdom of God is within.
quote:I look to God, by His Word and Spirit. God has given men to be heralds, but they are to point to God alone.
But you only look in other men for him.
quote:Why doesn't your god just reveal himself to me like he did to you, then? Jesus sent disciples out to bring the good news of salvation to the lost all over the world. Apparently God showed himself to you so you can hide the truth under a basket and then criticize people like me for not having it.
You will never find him, you will never drop your dogma, you will never become like a child. You will not do the things required of you. You believe you found God in a book(other men), and that prevents it.
I'm trying to share the truth with you and you are rejecting it. You have been trying to hide it from me, and then say I can't have it.
And if I need to do good things, then I'm well on my way! I help the poor and needy, the widow and orphan, and the sick and dying. I have given money, time, and love to those who have needed it. I seek to honor God with good works out of thankfulness for what He's done for me through Jesus, and I repent of my sins daily. If you took away what I believe to be true for a second and just looked at my good works, I'd bet that I measure up pretty nicely against just about anyone you could point to. Even so, I'm not relying on my good works to save me.
And by the way, what you are saying is dogma, by definition.
quote:What's the point, then? It's like not being invited to a party that I didn't know existed. If I cease to exist, then so what? I won't care anyway. What's the incentive to do anything you claim needs to be done, then?
Now many you will change one day, I don't know. But the most likely outcome is you just go back and cease to exist separately. To die the 2nd death. Go back to source, whatever you want to call it. That's NOT being tortured in hell forever or any of that other nonsense which serves no purpose.
quote:I'm not making up anything. I truly believe you are going to hell if you do not trust in Jesus. That isn't fearmongering, but expressing legitimate concern for your soul based on what I believe to be true. Remember what I said: a fearmonger is someone who needlessly spreads fear. I think there is a great need for you to know about the danger you are in, and I am telling you about it in good faith. You might not believe it, but I do, so therefore I'm doing what I believe is right.
Whose world do you think this is?
It's a question of how deep you will go.
Christians like you make up a fake place and claim it's for eternity unless they join your religion. That is fear mongering.
You have been a rather unpleasant person to discuss these topics with, with your false accusations and willful ignorance and attacks on my faith, however I still want the best for you. I still want you to turn from your sins and be saved. I would love to call you "brother", in spite of these interactions so far. I want what's best for you.
1
Posted on 9/1/26 at 2:11 am to Boom33
quote:
The Constitution doesn’t say what a religion is
they didn't define common sense, courage, and morality either - yet the whole document depends on those factors for the nation to survive as intended.
Posted on 9/1/26 at 7:37 am to FooManChoo
quote:
FooManChoo
I really don't have anything else to say to you.
Posted on 9/1/26 at 7:40 am to ChineseBandit58
quote:
they didn't define common sense, courage, and morality either - yet the whole document depends on those factors for the nation to survive as intended.
To be fair, there isn't an amendment protecting the free exercise of any of those things either, though.
Posted on 9/1/26 at 11:02 am to Boom33
quote:That's fine. I'd recommend if you find other things to say to me in the future, that you support them with argumentation
I really don't have anything else to say to you.
Posted on 9/1/26 at 11:12 am to FooManChoo
quote:
That's fine. I'd recommend if you find other things to say to me in the future, that you support them with argumentation
You just failed to convert me is all. In fact, you pretty much highlight all the reasons why I completely reject it. Overall, I'm glad the majority of Christians are nowhere near as ignorant as you are.
The reasons why are still there. If you can ever get beyond the claims of "Whatever I say God said is justified no matter what" and other forms of dogma, maybe I'll see a reason to entertain you further.
Posted on 9/2/26 at 1:02 am to Boom33
quote:While I would love for you to embrace the truth and be saved, Christian apologetics isn't entirely concerned with evangelism, though it's tied to it, but in silencing Christ's enemies by highlighting the foolishness of rejecting Him.
You just failed to convert me is all.
Your rejection of Jesus Christ has made you a fool, and it shows based on what you believe to be true.
quote:Ignorant? Are you redefining another term?
In fact, you pretty much highlight all the reasons why I completely reject it. Overall, I'm glad the majority of Christians are nowhere near as ignorant as you are.
Listen, you can disagree with me all you like, but you have no reason to call me ignorant about these things. In fact, it seems I know more about this than you do. With that said, knowledge isn't everything. You have a heart issue, not an intellect issue. You are blinded to the truth and have a hardened heart towards it.
quote:Ironically, it seems you are saying the same thing when you let fly those nuggets of dogma.
The reasons why are still there. If you can ever get beyond the claims of "Whatever I say God said is justified no matter what" and other forms of dogma, maybe I'll see a reason to entertain you further.
You are claiming to know the truth that has been revealed to you by God. You trust that revelation because of your claimed interaction with God, and you don't seem to be questioning it at all. It seems to me that you believe what you believe because God said so, because I have no idea how else you are going to agree with it otherwise.
Posted on 9/2/26 at 10:24 am to FooManChoo
quote:
While I would love for you to embrace the truth and be saved, Christian apologetics isn't entirely concerned with evangelism, though it's tied to it, but in silencing Christ's enemies by highlighting the foolishness of rejecting Him.
Your rejection of Jesus Christ has made you a fool, and it shows based on what you believe to be true.
At least you admit you're just an apologetic making up bullshite excuses for your dogma.
quote:
Ignorant? Are you redefining another term?
Listen, you can disagree with me all you like, but you have no reason to call me ignorant about these things. In fact, it seems I know more about this than you do. With that said, knowledge isn't everything. You have a heart issue, not an intellect issue. You are blinded to the truth and have a hardened heart towards it.
You are ignorant, and you will remain that way for the rest of your life.
quote:
Ironically, it seems you are saying the same thing when you let fly those nuggets of dogma.
You are claiming to know the truth that has been revealed to you by God. You trust that revelation because of your claimed interaction with God, and you don't seem to be questioning it at all. It seems to me that you believe what you believe because God said so, because I have no idea how else you are going to agree with it otherwise.
I question it every day and have for 20 years. But the answers don't change.
You deny in others what you yourself lack.
Posted on 9/2/26 at 11:26 am to Boom33
quote:Nothing I have said is novel to myself. I'm not making up anything.
At least you admit you're just an apologetic making up bullshite excuses for your dogma.
I'm a Christian, and that means I'm supposed to be able to be an apologist (someone who makes a defense for the faith) and an evangelist (someone who shares the good news of Jesus Christ with the lost). I'm a preacher and teacher, I'm an example, and I'm a follower of Jesus Christ. I'm not perfect, but I'm sincere.
If you want to write me off because I mentioned the word "apologetics", then so be it, but that's a problem with you, not me.
quote:Ignorant of what, exactly?
You are ignorant, and you will remain that way for the rest of your life.
You know, Christians like myself also believe that people are ignorant of things, like the way to forgiveness for their sins. In response to that ignorance, we tell people the good news of the gospel so that that ignorance can be dispelled and people can be saved. We respond to ignorance with teaching. You, apparently, respond to it with hiding the truth.
I've spent pages and pages attempting to explain and clarify to you what I believe and why I believe it. It isn't just some intellectual exercise for me. I seriously want you and others to have clarity about the Christian faith. You, on the other hand, have offered very little except unsupported criticisms. Perhaps you should try helping the "ignorant" like me, for a change.
quote:What is your ultimate standard, then? If you are questioning God, then you have to be comparing his words to something else to know if it's true, right? You are criticizing me for saying "God said it so I believe it", but clearly you must have a higher authority to judge by. I'm curious what that is.
I question it every day and have for 20 years. But the answers don't change.
You deny in others what you yourself lack.
Posted on 9/2/26 at 11:28 am to FooManChoo
quote:
You know, Christians like myself also believe that people are ignorant of things, like the way to forgiveness for their sins. In response to that ignorance, we tell people the good news of the gospel so that that ignorance can be dispelled and people can be saved. We respond to ignorance with teaching. You, apparently, respond to it with hiding the truth.
You don't ask for forgiveness, you ask for a blind eye and a free pass.
The man who asks for forgiveness is the man who recognizes and understands his errors and then fixes them and quits doing it. AKA the man who walks the path. And if/when you do that, you will be forgiven. Just as all you want from your own children is for them to fix their mistakes.
This post was edited on 9/2/26 at 11:31 am
Posted on 9/2/26 at 11:38 am to Boom33
quote:Factually not true. I've explained this to you a few different times now. I think you are either not reading what I've written or you are willfully lying about what I've said.
You don't ask for forgiveness, you ask for a blind eye and a free pass.
I do ask for forgiveness. Repentance includes asking for forgiveness, and repentance is a necessary aspect of receiving God's free gift of salvation. We believe God's promise and respond to that good news with repentance. Repentance (including asking for forgiveness) is a necessary proof of saving faith.
quote:All you've described here is what the Bible speaks of with repentance. However, the Bible also speaks of it in relation to God's law and our sin (we sin by breaking His law). It also includes faith in Jesus Christ, whose death and resurrection secured our pardon for sin and assurance of forgiveness.
The man who asks for forgiveness is the man who recognizes and understands his errors and then fixes them and quits doing it. AKA the man who walks the path. And if/when you do that, you will be forgiven. Just as all you want from your own children is for them to fix their mistakes.
I have and can continue to give you specific details of how this works out in the life of a person, from being convicted of their sins, to their asking of forgiveness, to their obedience upon pardon. You just talk about vague path-walking without a hint as to why anyone should believe your version. Christianity is rooted in history and supported by public ministry by the Son of God, affirming teaching with public miracles including the resurrection from the dead. You have just asked us to take your word for what you believe because you have had a private encounter with God. Supposedly.
Posted on 9/2/26 at 12:01 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Factually not true. I've explained this to you a few different times now. I think you are either not reading what I've written or you are willfully lying about what I've said.
I do ask for forgiveness. Repentance includes asking for forgiveness, and repentance is a necessary aspect of receiving God's free gift of salvation. We believe God's promise and respond to that good news with repentance. Repentance (including asking for forgiveness) is a necessary proof of saving faith.
No, the only thing that is required of you and other Pauilne Christians is that you claim, "Jesus is Lord" and believe that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
That allows you to keep committing the same sins over and over. That is asking for a blind eye.
Which is also why you need your "free gift", aka that blind eye. Of which God needs to burn billions of people in hell for all eternity in order to glorify.
Posted on 9/2/26 at 1:01 pm to Boom33
quote:It's not just a "claim", but a belief. Romans 10:9 says that "that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved."
No, the only thing that is required of you and other Pauilne Christians is that you claim, "Jesus is Lord" and believe that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Faith is required, not just a mere statement of assent. That's also what James was talking about when talked about the faith of demons. Mental assent is not enough. You need a saving faith that produces good works. Paul agrees, and says that we were made for good works (Eph. 2:10).
quote:Not at all. Repentance is a turning away from sin and pursuing obedience. There is no "blind eye" to sin with repentance.
That allows you to keep committing the same sins over and over. That is asking for a blind eye.
quote:The gift is not a blind eye, and an actual transaction: my sin imputed to Christ for forgiveness, and His righteousness imputed to me so that I am made acceptable to the Father. Christ's sacrifice for sin is real, and not some "blind eye".
Which is also why you need your "free gift", aka that blind eye. Of which God needs to burn billions of people in hell for all eternity in order to glorify.
Posted on 9/2/26 at 1:40 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
It's not just a "claim", but a belief. Romans 10:9 says that "that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved."
Faith is required, not just a mere statement of assent. That's also what James was talking about when talked about the faith of demons. Mental assent is not enough. You need a saving faith that produces good works. Paul agrees, and says that we were made for good works (Eph. 2:10).
You mean it's a belief about a claim.
And it's bullshite.
quote:
Not at all. Repentance is a turning away from sin and pursuing obedience. There is no "blind eye" to sin with repentance.
You ask for a blind eye because you don't repent.
quote:
The gift is not a blind eye, and an actual transaction: my sin imputed to Christ for forgiveness, and His righteousness imputed to me so that I am made acceptable to the Father. Christ's sacrifice for sin is real, and not some "blind eye".
Ok, Jesus paid for your blind eye.
Happy now?
Posted on 9/2/26 at 5:30 pm to Boom33
quote:Yeah, all truth claims are still claims. Even the claim that gravity exists. You shouldn't minimize that.
You mean it's a belief about a claim.
What I was correcting you on, though, was that it wasn't just saying "Jesus is Lord" that saves anyone, but actually believing that, as I've said all along.
quote:Cool opinion, bro.
And it's bullshite.
quote:Repent of what? I'm aware of sin through the law of God. I know what God expects and therefore I know that I need to repent when I break God's law, and I do repent.
You ask for a blind eye because you don't repent.
If you think I'm in sin in other ways that what God's word says, then you'll have to explain what that sin is, why you consider it sin, and how you know it is.
quote:
Ok, Jesus paid for your blind eye.
Happy now?
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