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Message
re: Oh damn! Pence allegations just surfaced
Posted on 11/30/17 at 3:27 pm to Dale51
Posted on 11/30/17 at 3:27 pm to Dale51
quote:
So you're passive.
Of course. It's none of my business what other people do, unless they do something that is objectively bad for another. Isn't that what it means to be free? Live and let live?
quote:
How about if you were forced to support it or punished if you spoke against it?
Who is being forced or punished, and by whom? Are you talking about "religious freedom" laws?
1
Posted on 11/30/17 at 3:28 pm to Korkstand
quote:
Then perhaps he should have been a pastor? Because working to enact laws that make specific people feel less free than others isn't very loving
In the christian faith all who believe are to go out into the world and spread his word. So Pence is doing what he believes right. The people who elected him feel the same way.
What law is he trying to enact?
Posted on 11/30/17 at 3:29 pm to Korkstand
quote:
could you ever, EVER make the choice to be gay?
I myself couldn't make the choice of being with a fat woman, but there men that do. So not a valid way to determine if what Pence believes is false.
quote:
how could anyone think they have a choice?
Because many have made the choice to not be gay anymore and live a gay lifestyle. Seems logical that there could be an argument it is a choice in some form or another.
Posted on 11/30/17 at 3:35 pm to CAD703X
we love our Veep, don't we folks?
Posted on 11/30/17 at 3:39 pm to Korkstand
quote:
Who is being forced or punished, and by whom?
Recently there have been a couple of different businesses ruined for refusing customers because of their religious beliefs. I can google for links.
Posted on 11/30/17 at 3:44 pm to CAD703X
quote:
Left the seat up that one time
Good thing he only left it up once. Any man that leaves it up more than once is usually a dead man walking.
Posted on 11/30/17 at 4:07 pm to GumboPot
quote:
What about gay sex? Is that a choice?
Unless it is rape.
Posted on 11/30/17 at 4:11 pm to graves1
quote:Spread the word, not convince some people to shun those who do not believe the word.
In the christian faith all who believe are to go out into the world and spread his word.
quote:The RFRA in Indiana gave religious people a legal way to use religion, rather than objective facts, as defense and justification for certain actions, correct?
What law is he trying to enact?
Posted on 11/30/17 at 4:11 pm to Marco Montana
quote:
Its not a sin
I guess we can say anything on this board, no matter how false, in hoping that it will become true?
Just curious that's all.
Posted on 11/30/17 at 4:17 pm to RockyMtnTigerWDE
quote:A statement such as "being gay is a choice" needs only one counter-example to be proven false. The reality is that for some it is a choice (those in the sexuality "gray area"), and for others it isn't (those at either extreme of the scale). Therefore, neither "being gay is a choice" nor "being gay is not a choice" are true. Both statements require a qualifier, "sometimes".
I myself couldn't make the choice of being with a fat woman, but there men that do. So not a valid way to determine if what Pence believes is false.
quote:Uh huh. Some might call them "bisexual", or in the terms I've been using, they are in the middle of the sliding scale of sexuality.
Because many have made the choice to not be gay anymore and live a gay lifestyle.
quote:Of course, and that's what I've been saying if anyone cared to read.
Seems logical that there could be an argument it is a choice in some form or another.
Posted on 11/30/17 at 4:18 pm to graves1
quote:That is the free market in action, and you're going to have a really hard time convincing me that conservatives want to place restrictions on the free market.
Recently there have been a couple of different businesses ruined for refusing customers because of their religious beliefs.
Posted on 11/30/17 at 4:24 pm to Korkstand
So the RFRA was put in place to protect religious people. You don't want these people to have rights? Lets say for example that I owned a bakery. And I didn't want to make a penis cake for a gay wedding. Should I lose my business because of mounting cost of lawsuits? Or should the gay couple go to another bakery?
Posted on 11/30/17 at 4:32 pm to GumboPot
Posted on 11/30/17 at 4:43 pm to graves1
quote:Of course I want them to have rights, and actually I think everyone should be equally allowed to ruin themselves with stupidity. I just don't think we should have laws on the books giving a specific class of people (the religious) extra legal rights or legal defenses due to their choice of religion.
So the RFRA was put in place to protect religious people. You don't want these people to have rights?
quote:Is your issue with the penis or the gay people? Because I can't see anyone having a problem with a bakery, or any business, refusing to produce sexually explicit products. If, instead, you say you don't want to serve gay people, legal or not, IMO you deserve whatever reaction the free market throws at you.
Lets say for example that I owned a bakery. And I didn't want to make a penis cake for a gay wedding.
quote:The root cause of losing the business wouldn't be the cost of lawsuits. Rather, it would be stupidity and ignorance.
Should I lose my business because of mounting cost of lawsuits?
quote:Most probably do, but some choose to fight discrimination, which is a very American thing to do. What if black people still had to shop around for businesses that serve them? What makes gay people any different? It doesn't have any place in 2017 America.
Or should the gay couple go to another bakery?
Posted on 11/30/17 at 4:52 pm to idlewatcher
quote:
What a trashcan he is. He should resign immediately!
Yup.
Posted on 11/30/17 at 5:00 pm to Korkstand
quote:
The root cause of losing the business wouldn't be the cost of lawsuits. Rather, it would be stupidity and ignorance.
Stupidity and ignorance. So in your own words someone would have to be stupid or ignorant to not support homosexuality. Where are the rights of those that do not support the act of putting your penis in a hole that was designed for waste? So a religious person should waver on their beliefs so it doesn't upset someone?
Posted on 11/30/17 at 5:17 pm to graves1
quote:No, I was talking about stupidity and ignorance in terms of running a successful business.
Stupidity and ignorance. So in your own words someone would have to be stupid or ignorant to not support homosexuality.
quote:Their rights are firmly intact, and they can rest assured that no one is trying to force them to put their penises inside any buttholes.
Where are the rights of those that do not support the act of putting your penis in a hole that was designed for waste?
On a side note: what are your thoughts on putting a penis in a hole designed for eating?
quote:If they value their business and livelihood, of course! Most of us do that every single day. They might as well hang a "no figs allowed" sign outside and see how well that goes. It's not only hateful, but it's stupid.
So a religious person should waver on their beliefs so it doesn't upset someone?
Posted on 11/30/17 at 5:33 pm to Korkstand
quote:
If they value their business and livelihood, of course! Most of us do that every single day. They might as well hang a "no figs allowed" sign outside and see how well that goes. It's not only hateful, but it's stupid.
So instead of admiring a person that will not waver on their beliefs we call them stupid, ignorant, and lets not forget bigot.
I have enjoyed the debate. I will admit both groups take things overboard. They both want you to change your personal beliefs on something.
Posted on 11/30/17 at 5:51 pm to graves1
quote:Are you suggesting that all beliefs are admirable? Or that an unwavering devotion to a set of beliefs is admirable, no matter the beliefs? Either should be easily disprovable with only a minimum of thought.
So instead of admiring a person that will not waver on their beliefs we call them stupid, ignorant, and lets not forget bigot.
quote:Such is life in 2017.
I will admit both groups take things overboard.
quote:Sure, but one side wants to be able to discriminate based on religion without consequence, and the other side wants to be treated as equals.
They both want you to change your personal beliefs on something.
Posted on 11/30/17 at 6:16 pm to Korkstand
quote:
the rights of a certain group/class of people
Queer is not a protected status under federal law.
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