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Message
re: New Orleans native named top leader at ICE, deepening Louisiana's ties to the agency
Posted on 1/20/26 at 6:21 pm to Narax
Posted on 1/20/26 at 6:21 pm to Narax
quote:
Do you believe that? That the word of God is not dependent on men acting on it, or much less thinking or even hearing it?
God’s Word does not ontologically depend on humans. God’s Word does not cease to exist, lose truth, or lose authority because no one hears it, thinks it, or obeys it. Truth is not created by reception. God is God whether humans respond or not. In that sense, the Word of God is not dependent on men at all.
Revelation is real, but its effects in the world are mediated. The Gospel does not preach itself. Commandments do not enforce themselves. Moral law does not incarnate itself. Justice does not apply itself.
None of this has anything to do with the perverted laws and justice system instituted and enforced by humans.
1
Posted on 1/20/26 at 7:40 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
God’s Word does not ontologically depend on humans. God’s Word does not cease to exist, lose truth, or lose authority because no one hears it, thinks it, or obeys it. Truth is not created by reception. God is God whether humans respond or not. In that sense, the Word of God is not dependent on men at all.
If you believe that to be true, then Romans 13:1-5 also has to be dealt with.
quote:
1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.
3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended.
4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.
5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.
This was written in a time where a brutal autocratic Roman Emperor was in power.
quote:
Revelation is real, but its effects in the world are mediated. The Gospel does not preach itself. Commandments do not enforce themselves. Moral law does not incarnate itself. Justice does not apply itself.
One would have to also deal with Romans 2:12-16
quote:
12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law.
13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.
14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.
15They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)
16This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
quote:
None of this has anything to do with the perverted laws and justice system instituted and enforced by humans.
How does one judge justice without a basis for it?
I think this is wrong, this other person thinks this is right.
Who can tell, are we wise enough to determine good and evil apart from God? How is justice determined and by who, so that we may say it is perverted?
quote:
In those days there was no king in Israel: every man did that which was right in his own eyes.
In a world where Islam allows 4 wives, ISIS allows kidnapping, western atheists and spiritualists praise homosexuality and transsexuality.
In a world where some defend slavery, and some defend taking the money of those who share a skintone with the prior centuries supporters of slavery.
What is justice?
Is it a warm and fuzzy held by each person, always to be fought over by neighbors where might is right, where those with the most power win?
A minimalist position where laws are just paper makes justice not even a real thing, much less an agreed upon thing,
This post was edited on 1/20/26 at 7:46 pm
Posted on 1/21/26 at 10:26 am to Narax
quote:
How does one judge justice without a basis for it?
You are correct that justice collapses into mere preference without God. We live in a secular country governed by imperfect, self-interested humans. Catholics believe that every human was made in the image and likeness of the Father and possesses inherent dignity because of that. Catholics believe that life should be cherished from life until natural death. There are no exceptions based on race, gender, hair color, achievements, aptitude, "goodness" or "badness." US law conflicts with that through its tolerance of capital punishment.
quote:
What is justice?
A whole chapter in my dissertation!
quote:
A minimalist position where laws are just paper makes justice not even a real thing, much less an agreed upon thing,
You are equating laws with justice. Justice exists regardless of (or in spite of) laws. Laws can be, and often are, unjust. The fact that moral interpretations and laws vary so wildly between cultures only demonstrates that humans are fallible interpreters of moral order. It reinforces that on its face, a law is not justice.
Thomas Aquinas wrote a lot about justice and laws. I think you would like Catholicism.
Posted on 1/21/26 at 10:44 am to 4cubbies
Hey babes.
Your repeated refusal to simply admit that Trayvon martin and Sandra bland were not killed by police is honestly staggering.
How can someone take you seriously when it comes to justice and criminal reform when you have such……… unique….. beliefs that go against reality?
Care to correct the record yet or will you continue to ignore -thus confirming- your illogical and incorrect belief?
Your repeated refusal to simply admit that Trayvon martin and Sandra bland were not killed by police is honestly staggering.
How can someone take you seriously when it comes to justice and criminal reform when you have such……… unique….. beliefs that go against reality?
Care to correct the record yet or will you continue to ignore -thus confirming- your illogical and incorrect belief?
Posted on 1/21/26 at 11:03 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
You are correct that justice collapses into mere preference without God. We live in a secular country governed by imperfect, self-interested humans.
Yes and as a nation with religious freedom, our individual versions of "justice" are no more than mere preference unless you advocate for Christian nationalism.
Beyond that your individual interpretation is far outside mainstream Christianity.
quote:
Catholics believe that every human was made in the image and likeness of the Father and possesses inherent dignity because of that.
While we can debate dignitatis humanae that is modern vs that of Aquinas, it is a far far stretch to imagine that punishment by law strips a human of dignity.
The Bible is full of laws and punishment, directly laid down from God.
It is a far non biblical cry that punishment is more degrading than sin.
Matthew 15 is quite clear on it is only what we do that makes us defiled.
quote:
10 Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen and understand.
11 What goes into someone’s mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them.”
We are defiled by our sins, not sins against us.
What led him to say that?
Because some were putting their own "wisdom" ahead of God's commands.
quote:
3 Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition?
4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’ and ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’
5 But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is ‘devoted to God,’
6 they are not to ‘honor their father or mother’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition.
7 You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:
8 “‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
9 They worship me in vain;
their teachings are merely human rules.’
Is God right in declaring a death penalty to those who curse their parents?
In deed does worship of the new Aquinas dignitatis humanae go beyond God's demand for righteousness?
quote:
Catholics believe that life should be cherished from life until natural death. There are no exceptions based on race, gender, hair color, achievements, aptitude, "goodness" or "badness
That is not true, a few modernizing Popes can be interpreted too far.
Badness is you mean sinfullness defiles the body that is in the image of God.
Look at the repeated separation of Church and State.
Matthew 22:21
quote:
“They said to Him, “Caesar’s.” And He said to them, “Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.””
Romans 13:1–5
quote:
“Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.”
3 “For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience’ sake.”
1 Peter 2:13–17
quote:
“Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord’s sake, whether to the king as supreme, or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men—as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bondservants of God. Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.”
To allow those in sin to continue in sin, to encourage their sin and declare that human laws are not just, is you putting your preference above the laws of God.
Matthew 10:28
quote:
And fear not them that kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul; but rather fear Him that is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Have you no fear that those you encourage in lawlessness, rejecting laws, will be hell bound?
Where do you think those who reject Christ go.
Posted on 1/22/26 at 10:07 am to Narax
quote:
Beyond that your individual interpretation is far outside mainstream Christianity.
Why would I care about "mainstream Christianity?" Why would I want to fit in with prosperity gospel protestants?
quote:
While we can debate dignitatis humanae that is modern vs that of Aquinas, it is a far far stretch to imagine that punishment by law strips a human of dignity.
Punishment itself does not strip someone of their dignity. For Aquinas, the dignity problem arises not from punishment itself, but from punishment detached from justice. Punishment becomes degrading when it treats the person as disposable rather than accountable, it is imposed arbitrarily or selectively, it serves domination rather than the common good, or it denies the offender’s status as a rational moral agent.
quote:Whatever God does is perfect.
Is God right in declaring a death penalty to those who curse their parents?
quote:Strong language. Dignitatis Humanae is not a “new Aquinas." Dignitatis Humanae, properly understood, does not supersede God’s demand for righteousness; it limits how coercion may be used, not whether moral truth may be judged or upheld.
In deed does worship of the new Aquinas dignitatis humanae go beyond God's demand for righteousness?
quote:
That is not true, a few modernizing Popes can be interpreted too far.
None of the scripture you quoted talks about humans being stripped of their dignity by sinning.
quote:
To allow those in sin to continue in sin,quote:, is you putting your preference above the laws of God.
to encourage their sin and declare that human laws are not just
Encourage what sins? Human laws are not just because they are human laws. Some human laws are unjust. You are basically saying that every law everywhere is just and moral by virtue of being a law.
quote:
Have you no fear that those you encourage in lawlessness,
I have no idea what you're referring to. Who do I encourage in lawlessness? How do I encourage them in lawlessness?
quote:It's the selective enforcement of said laws that I have a problem with, not necessarily the laws themselves.
rejecting laws, will be hell bound?
Posted on 1/22/26 at 10:46 am to 4cubbies
quote:
It's the selective enforcement of said laws that I have a problem with, not necessarily the laws themselves.
Yea. Absolutely incredible we have people advocating for a group to be able to openly skirt immigration law while I cannot break any laws.
Posted on 1/22/26 at 10:58 am to CleverUserName
quote:
while I cannot break any laws.
I'm sure you break laws without consequence regularly. We likely all do.
That really has no bearing on this discussion, though.
Posted on 1/22/26 at 11:10 am to 4cubbies
quote:
I'm sure you break laws without consequence regularly. We likely all do. That really has no bearing on this discussion, though.
I'm not ALLOWED to. The political left wants people to BE ALLOWED to.
Sure it has bearing. You said the APPLICATION of laws are unfair. Selective enforcement. I agreed with you. What's the problem?
And aren't you participating in devolving the discussion into a theological discussion? And you are telling me my response has no bearing on the discussion?
This post was edited on 1/22/26 at 11:11 am
Posted on 1/22/26 at 11:11 am to 4cubbies
quote:
What would it take to humanize “illegals” for you?
They're human. That's why they have to go home.
We want the same for ICE as we want for the illegals...for everyone to make it home safely.
This post was edited on 1/22/26 at 11:12 am
Posted on 1/22/26 at 1:29 pm to CleverUserName
quote:
I'm not ALLOWED to. The political left wants people to BE ALLOWED to.
If you break a law and face no consequences for breaking the law - are you not allowed the break that law?
How can you argue that breaking a law and getting away with it is being "not ALLOWED to" break the law?
quote:
And aren't you participating in devolving the discussion into a theological discussion? And you are telling me my response has no bearing on the discussion?
Well at least you're aware that you were attempting to derail the thread to have some meaningless gotcha moment.
Posted on 1/22/26 at 1:37 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
Only US citizens are humans. Gotcha.
So emotional
That’s it, we’re all now convinced the illegals can stay
Posted on 1/22/26 at 1:39 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
If you break a law and face no consequences for breaking the law - are you not allowed the break that law?
Not being caught speeding is in no way comparable to having a large portion of the public protest for my right to speed, the local police departments being told to overlook my speeding, the judges shuttling me out the back door to keep the state patrol from writing any tickets, and groups of people attacking the cop that is writing me a speeding ticket.
You absolutely know the difference. But your usual method of picking, choosing, and using the squirrel deflection is in full force.
Posted on 1/22/26 at 1:47 pm to CleverUserName
quote:
Not being caught speeding is in no way comparable to having a large portion of the public protest for my right to speed, the local police departments being told to overlook my speeding, the judges shuttling me out the back door to keep the state patrol from writing any tickets, and groups of people attacking the cop that is writing me a speeding ticket.
Yet the outcomes are the same.
quote:
You absolutely know the difference. But your usual method of picking, choosing, and using the squirrel deflection is in full force.
And your emotional hysterics are on full display as well.
Posted on 1/22/26 at 1:51 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
Yet the outcomes are the same.
Sorry.... you saying there is NO selective enforcement?
quote:
And your emotional hysterics are on full display as well.
Coming from you?
Thanks for the laugh. This post was edited on 1/22/26 at 1:52 pm
Posted on 1/22/26 at 2:04 pm to CleverUserName
quote:
Sorry.... you saying there is NO selective enforcement?
I haven't been keeping up with whatever situation you're alluding to, to be honest. I'm using the information you provided in your hypothetical, which is that law enforcement at large and the entire criminal justice system decided not enforce immigration laws in response to protests while the same government actors are enforcing other laws that people are not protesting about.
That sounds like a gross exaggeration but I've maxed on bad news for a while so I'm not curious enough to investigate the reality of the situation.
quote:I'm sure you think this response is not emotional. Cute.
Coming from you? Thanks for the laugh.
Posted on 1/22/26 at 2:14 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
I haven't been keeping up with whatever situation you're alluding to, to be honest. I'm using the information you provided in your hypothetical, which is that law enforcement at large and the entire criminal justice system decided not enforce immigration laws in response to protests while the same government actors are enforcing other laws that people are not protesting about.
Wrong. It's not law enforcement at large. And it's not due to protests. It's an entire political party that not only wants to ignore and even subvert immigration law. As well as judges, prosecutors, and state and local law enforcement. And not only ignore it, actually encourage the breaking of it.
Your attempted claim that there is selective enforcement is right... except it's backwards from which you attempted to portray it.
Now. Since there is widespread demand for the government to ignore immigration enforcement.... what laws are they demanding that I can ignore? Any? Any laws I'm being encouraged to ignore from Washington, state, and local leaders? Why.... that does sound like selective enforcement. Doesn't it?
Posted on 1/22/26 at 2:46 pm to CleverUserName
quote:
Wrong. It's not law enforcement at large. And it's not due to protests. It's an entire political party that not only wants to ignore and even subvert immigration law.
Oh. You're upset about what some random people want ?
quote:
Your attempted claim that there is selective enforcement is right..
Nope. You brought up "what about this vague situation that you aren't even aware of? WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS OK?!"
Posted on 1/22/26 at 6:01 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
Oh. You're upset about what some random people want ?
Congressmen, governors, mayors, police chiefs, prosecutors, and judges aren't "random". The people that make laws, enforce laws, and set policy. Nice try though.
quote:
Nope. You brought up "what about this vague situation that you aren't even aware of? WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS OK?!"
Who's emotional now?
This post was edited on 1/22/26 at 6:03 pm
Posted on 1/22/26 at 7:34 pm to 4cubbies
Charlie is a go getter
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