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Started By
Message
re: “Never Forget the Real Reason Russia Went to War…”
Posted on 2/18/23 at 11:04 am to HubbaBubba
Posted on 2/18/23 at 11:04 am to HubbaBubba
quote:
Russia was very clear that the eastern Ukraine region, filled with Russians separatists, were being systematically targeted with fines, seizures of properties, thrown in jail and overall treated as 3rd-class citizens with no voice. These people wanted to enjoy life being left alone and Russia continued to press for changes, and to let the people in the region have a vote on their autonomy. Every reasonable constraint was shown by Russia for many years, all while an iron-fisted pro-NATO leadership continued to clamp down further, with reassurances from the US shadow government that we support the pro-western path.
Wow, do you speak Russian, or did you use Google Translate to copy your Pravda talking points?
0
Posted on 2/18/23 at 11:07 am to GnashRebel
quote:
Russia’s neighbors would uniformly disagree. Explain that please.
That's a non-response. Russia being an expansionist state doesn't disprove Toomer's point. The United States military or covert ops has been actively involved in wars in multiple Central American, South American and Caribbean countries since the end of World War II. Then you have the ground wars in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Yugoslavia, Kosovo, Afghanistan and Iraq again, not to mention our drone campaigns in Pakistan, Yemen and Somalia.
And furthermore, Toomer's points are precisely correct: those most supportive of an expansionist American foreign policy are those most opposed to Russia doing the exact same thing. Those who are crying the loudest about Ukrainian sovereignty care nothing for the sovereignty of the nation-state when we're fomenting coups, outright invading or nation building. It's cognitive dissonance at its finest.
Posted on 2/18/23 at 11:12 am to GnashRebel
quote:
If countries aren’t afraid of Russia why does every single one not run by Russian appointed dictator want to cozy up to the US. Literally every single one. Seems strange…
Because they're more afraid of the US. There's a big difference between "cozying up to" and "get in line, or else." Leaders of other countries who don't tow the WEF/LWO line find themselves subject to regime change. Every NATO country, with the exception of Turkey, has been put there with American assistance.
More than anything, Washington is scared of a Russia-German alliance. Russia has vast natural resources, Germany has the know how to help Russia extract and use them. When Germany seemed content to continue using Russian oil after the Ukraine skirmish began, we destroyes the Nordstream pipeline. This was an act of war against Russia and Germany.
Posted on 2/18/23 at 11:13 am to Toomer Deplorable
The authors must read this board 
Posted on 2/18/23 at 11:19 am to GnashRebel
quote:
That is the most absurd nonsense I have ever read.
1. The USA has armed separatists for years.
2. The USA has had troops backing neighboring dictators for years.
3. The USA throws its own people in jail or just murders them all the time for entering Congress.
quote:I never said anything positive about Putin other than he has shown restraint. Had Trump been president, there would not have been a war in Ukraine. There would have been a diplomatic solution where all sides give up something to get something. Our current POTATUS refused and did EVERYTHING to poke and prod Putin into war. I put blame where blame lies.
Look if you think the US should mind it’s business that’s fine, but clutching your pearls for Putin and being generally insane isn’t a reasonable debate.
quote:You are an apologist for the most powerful, corrupt government on the face of the planet. Of course we did it. And we conveniently used China's Wuhan labs as the scapegoat. Don't be so blind. We are no longer America the beautiful, home of the free and the brave. Our POTATUS also blew up the Nordstream pipeline and then bald-faced lied to the American people with his denial. He has threatened his own citizens with using the military power against it. Grow up. Get realistic about the truth of what's going on.
4. The US created Covid in a lab in Ukraine? Then shipped it to China to release it? Why? Even the Chinese don’t believe this.
This post was edited on 2/18/23 at 11:28 am
Posted on 2/18/23 at 11:26 am to SCLibertarian
quote:
And furthermore, Toomer's points are precisely correct: those most supportive of an expansionist American foreign policy are those most opposed to Russia doing the exact same thing. Those who are crying the loudest about Ukrainian sovereignty care nothing for the sovereignty of the nation-state when we're fomenting coups, outright invading or nation building. It's cognitive dissonance at its finest.
1. I attacked the arguments not the ultimate point. I specifically stated that if you think staying out of it is good policy than just make that argument don’t parrot Russian talking points. Read the whole thread. And I don’t agree with all of the US policies but I also think it is absurd to suggest that most countries, in particular in Eastern Europe, see the US as the same as Russia. So don’t make those stupid arguments.
Posted on 2/18/23 at 11:26 am to SCLibertarian
quote:
Those who are crying the loudest about Ukrainian sovereignty care nothing for the sovereignty of the nation-state when we're fomenting coups, outright invading or nation building. It's cognitive dissonance at its finest.
Posted on 2/18/23 at 11:28 am to GnashRebel
quote:
I specifically stated that if you think staying out of it is good policy than just make that argument don’t parrot Russian talking points
Where do you get Russian talking points from? Have you taken a peek at the world media in this war?
Posted on 2/18/23 at 11:30 am to HubbaBubba
quote:
Had Trump been president, there would not have been a war in Ukraine. There would have been a diplomatic solution where all sides give up something to get something.
What does Russia give up when invading another country?
Your theories on the US creating Covid in Ukraine then shipping it to Wuhan are delightful. Please link me to your sources so I can enjoy.
Posted on 2/18/23 at 11:30 am to GnashRebel
quote:
I attacked the arguments not the ultimate point. I specifically stated that if you think staying out of it is good policy than just make that argument don’t parrot Russian talking points.
It is not a Russian talking point to correctly observe that the United States’ foreign policy agenda since at least the end of the Cold War has been predicated on aggressive military intervention.
Posted on 2/18/23 at 11:36 am to Toomer Deplorable
HEY O-T morons:
Ambassador William J. Burns was the most distinguished Foreign Service officer of his generation and now serves as director of the CIA. While serving as ambassador to Moscow during the George W. Bush and Barack Obama administrations he advised that "NATO enlargement, particularly the Ukraine, remains an emotional and neuralgic issue for Russia. Strategic policy considerations also underlie a strong opposition to NATO membership for Ukraine and Georgia. Regarding Ukraine these concerns include fears that the issue could spilt the country in two, leading to violence or even, some claim, civil war, which would force Russia to decide whether to intervene."
In a memo to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, Burns wrote, "Ukrainian entry into NATO is the brightest of all red lines for the Russian elite (not just Russian President Vladimir Putin). In more than two-and-a-half years of conversations with key Russian players, from knuckle-draggers in the dark recesses of the Kremlin to Putin's sharpest liberal critics, I have yet to find anyone who views Ukraine in NATO as anything other than a direct challenge to Russian interests."
Back when warmongers were put in their place
Ambassador William J. Burns was the most distinguished Foreign Service officer of his generation and now serves as director of the CIA. While serving as ambassador to Moscow during the George W. Bush and Barack Obama administrations he advised that "NATO enlargement, particularly the Ukraine, remains an emotional and neuralgic issue for Russia. Strategic policy considerations also underlie a strong opposition to NATO membership for Ukraine and Georgia. Regarding Ukraine these concerns include fears that the issue could spilt the country in two, leading to violence or even, some claim, civil war, which would force Russia to decide whether to intervene."
In a memo to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, Burns wrote, "Ukrainian entry into NATO is the brightest of all red lines for the Russian elite (not just Russian President Vladimir Putin). In more than two-and-a-half years of conversations with key Russian players, from knuckle-draggers in the dark recesses of the Kremlin to Putin's sharpest liberal critics, I have yet to find anyone who views Ukraine in NATO as anything other than a direct challenge to Russian interests."
Back when warmongers were put in their place
This post was edited on 2/18/23 at 11:38 am
Posted on 2/18/23 at 11:38 am to Toomer Deplorable
quote:
It is not a Russian talking point to correctly observe that the United States’ foreign policy agenda since at least the end of the Cold War has been predicated on aggressive military intervention.
Intervention isn’t the same as annexing your neighbors. As I said I don’t agree with our policies. But I think you guys have gone off the deep end by trying to justify Putin and comparing him to the US despite the fact that all of his neighbors disagree with you.
Posted on 2/18/23 at 11:38 am to GnashRebel
quote:
I specifically stated that if you think staying out of it is good policy than just make that argument don’t parrot Russian talking points.
Many of the people in this thread are Paulites. This isn't some MAGA worship of Putin. We are people whose primary voting issue is ending America's psychotic foreign policy. These aren't Russian talking points. It's a philosophical belief that war is anathema to limited government and individual liberty.
Posted on 2/18/23 at 11:39 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Where do you get Russian talking points from? Have you taken a peek at the world media in this war?
Then attack those narratives. Don’t parrot nonsense from Putin.
Posted on 2/18/23 at 11:43 am to SCLibertarian
quote:
Many of the people in this thread are Paulites. This isn't some MAGA worship of Putin. We are people whose primary voting issue is ending America's psychotic foreign policy. These aren't Russian talking points. It's a philosophical belief that war is anathema to limited government and individual liberty.
You may not be parroting Putin talking points. I never said you did. I specifically addressed people who did and/or played what aboutism.
Posted on 2/18/23 at 11:44 am to GnashRebel
No worries man. I know where you stand based on your post history. 
Posted on 2/18/23 at 11:45 am to Toomer Deplorable
quote:
To explain Putin's motives is not to justify his actions.
People on this board who have bought the narrative need to understand this.
Blaming NATO for the conflict is not equivalent to backing Russia. Opposing US involvement is not equivalent to backing Russia.
Posted on 2/18/23 at 11:48 am to GnashRebel
quote:
As I said I don’t agree with our policies. But I think you guys have gone off the deep end by trying to justify Putin and comparing him to the US despite the fact that all of his neighbors disagree with you.
Talk about regurgitating talking points. It is not apologizing for Putin to correctly point out that every aspect of the current foreign policy initiatives of the United States is built upon rank hypocrisy.
Posted on 2/18/23 at 11:51 am to Toomer Deplorable
quote:
Talk about regurgitating talking points. It is not apologizing for Putin to correctly point out that every aspect of the current foreign policy initiatives of the United States is built upon rank hypocrisy.
How is that relevant to the invasion of Ukraine
Posted on 2/18/23 at 11:54 am to GnashRebel
quote:Yikes.
but clutching your pearls for Putin and being generally insane isn’t a reasonable debate.
Russia established twenty-five years ago that NATO in Ukraine and/or Georgia would be perceived as a national security threat to Russia. Russia (not just Putin) made that perception widely known.
Russia was explicit in its concern.
Whether NATO writes off its expansionist actions as supposedly not warranting the Russians' perception is totally irrelevant. Russia feels threatened.
If you come across a snake in the woods and mean it no harm, but you stick your face up to it to get a better look, it will feel threatened. In your mind it has no reason to feel threatened, but it does. Then it reacts predictably, and accordingly.
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