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re: Nebraska: Women overwhelmed with joy and in tears, after abortion ban bill fails
Posted on 4/30/23 at 9:32 pm to BBONDS25
Posted on 4/30/23 at 9:32 pm to BBONDS25
quote:
The brain isn’t fully developed until a decade and a half or more of life
But it finishes becoming a brain in uterus though. Yes it develops further as time goes on, but it finished becoming a full brain well before.
1
Posted on 4/30/23 at 9:34 pm to DavidTheGnome
quote:
But it finishes becoming a brain in uterus though. Yes it develops further as time goes on, but it finished becoming a full brain well before.
Perfect. So in utero the babies brain is able to discern pain? Or fear?
Posted on 4/30/23 at 9:48 pm to DavidTheGnome
quote:
If that’s when the brain finishes forming
Not sure what you mean by forming, as it is far from fully functional and developed. As discussed, it will have 25 or so more years of development to become fully formed. The brain begins development around 4 weeks, so not sure why the process between 4 and 12 weeks does not meet your threshold, as there is brain functions occurring during that period of development.
I think more than likely what you are saying, that I would imagine most other people with your beliefs share, is that most of your milestones for "personhood" and "sentience" are completely arbitrary and impossible to delineate. But you feel by picking some number or time frame when abortion is acceptable (like 12 weeks, 15 weeks, 20 weeks, etc), you are just naming the amount of time that would not make you feel guilty, and maybe it doesn't feel so icky to you. There really is no other good reason, other than people find 2nd and 3rd trimester abortions to be icky and they seem bad, because the baby now looks way more like a baby and the process seems to be more graphic and violent than a simple and maybe more benign seeming chemical flush at 6 weeks. Both process result in the ending of a human life, but one is more likely to jerk people's heart strings than the other so we allow one but not the other.
This post was edited on 4/30/23 at 10:05 pm
Posted on 4/30/23 at 10:44 pm to DaBike
quote:
White women are the biggest problem with this country. Not all but too many
The bigger problem may be the men that cower before them. In the case of this vote, it was 32-15, and they needed 33 votes to pass the abortion ban?
So what happened? One of the freaking co-sponsors... this guy... abstained because he as afraid of female reaction.
You can vote in as many of your people as you want, and there's always going to be that guy who wanted to be "on the right side of history".
The older I get, the more I think the Athenians had a good idea in voting to banish people every year.
Posted on 4/30/23 at 11:12 pm to DaBike
quote:That's why our Founding Fathers didn’t let them vote. They were wise.
White women are the biggest problem with this country. Not all but too many
Posted on 4/30/23 at 11:17 pm to DesScorp
quote:
. In the case of this vote, it was 32-15, and they needed 33 votes to pass the abortion ban? So what happened? One of the freaking co-sponsors... this guy... abstained because he as afraid of female reaction. You can vote in as many of your people as you want, and there's always going to be that guy who wanted to be "on the right side of history".
A lot of things sure seem to fail by one vote
Posted on 4/30/23 at 11:19 pm to burger bearcat
Moloch is happy today. The child sacrifice practice will continue.
Posted on 5/1/23 at 12:29 am to burger bearcat
Abortion is nothing more than ancient child sacrifice that’s been industrialized for greater efficiency in numbers of victims and dollars. Planned Parenthood does not operate clinics, they are abattoirs.
quote:
“The Creator creates, and we destroy. And we do all of it through you. We always have.
Did you forget your history, Jimmy? Even in ancient times, the arch-demon Molech was celebrated by tossing infants into flaming bonfires.”
“What does this have to do with me?”
“Oh, nothing, James. Especially since the priests now wear surgical scrubs, the killing takes place in the womb, so there’s no screaming to be heard anyway, and the remains are tossed into a gas-fired crematorium.
No, James, no, no, no. There’s no parallel whatsoever to you.
Can you imagine the agony the Carpenter feels when we rip a child to pieces inside its own mother’s womb? ‘Cause that’s what we do, James. You and us. We do it together. … And all hell rejoices.”
From Nefarious.
Posted on 5/1/23 at 9:18 am to DavidTheGnome
quote:He is conflating "capacity" and "potential."quote:Really? That's surprising, care to show how you came to this conclusion?
A 4 week child inutero has the capacity for reasoning, there is no denying this fact.
The simple fact is that the nervous system of an embryo has not yet developed to the point that it is CAPABLE of "reasoning," though it certainly has the POTENTIAL to develop that ability.
Posted on 5/1/23 at 9:23 am to BBONDS25
quote:I assume that you mean "sapience." As I have said at least four times in this thread, I do have a problem with removal of rights once they have vested ... bringing "due process" into play.
in a perfect world, legal rights would vest with consciousness/sapience,quote:
Do they cease with loss of salience?
Is it "reasonable" to remove those rights from a living human body that has lost all semblance of sapience or consciousness? Yes, I think it is. That body is not longer "human" in the philosophical sense, though it certainly remains "human" in the biological sense.
Posted on 5/1/23 at 9:26 am to NPComb
quote:Because I am not obsessed with biological species as the determinative factor for the vesting of legal rights?
100% human. That does not automatically mean that it is vested into certain legal rights.quote:
Wholly shite dude. You really are a monster.
OK. Childish response, but "OK."
Posted on 5/1/23 at 9:28 am to BBONDS25
quote:For purposes of this discussion, the question is NOT whether a brain is "fully developed," but rather whether it has developed to the point of having the capacity for cognition and consciousness.
I posted an article that said sometime in the second trimester. I even bolted and quoted the part for you.quote:
The brain isn’t fully developed until a decade and a half or more of life
The first signs of that capacity begin to appear late in the second trimester of a pregnancy.
Posted on 5/1/23 at 9:30 am to AggieHank86
quote:Why does "sapience" give value to a human being, making it worthy of life, in your perspective?
I assume that you mean "sapience." As I have said at least four times in this thread, I do have a problem with removal of rights once they have vested ... bringing "due process" into play.
Is it "reasonable" to remove those rights from a living human body that has lost all semblance of sapience or consciousness? Yes, I think it is. That body is not longer "human" in the philosophical sense, though it certainly remains "human" in the biological sense.
Posted on 5/1/23 at 9:31 am to burger bearcat
quote:That is not remotely what he is saying or what I am saying.quote:OK, according to your standard, you believe that it is perfectly acceptable to end the life of a human baby at 12 weeks, 6 days but at 13 weeks, one day later we should make it illegal and that life is now worth protecting?
In the second trimester when the brain finishes forming I said was a good spot imo to draw the line.
This seems to be what you are advocating for, so please clarify if I am wrong.
We ACKNOWLEDGE that there is not an objective "line" dictated by biology. These things develop on a spectrum, over time. So you just pick a point BEFORE they have started to develop.
This is not a difficult concept.
Posted on 5/1/23 at 9:32 am to omegaman66
quote:The obsession on the Right with this fictional character is entertaining.
Moloch is happy today.
Posted on 5/1/23 at 9:39 am to FooManChoo
quote:BEcause it is the trait that separates us from plants and amoebas.
Why does "sapience" give value to a human being, making it worthy of life, in your perspective?
Posted on 5/1/23 at 9:44 am to AggieHank86
quote:Separation from plants and amoebas alone doesn't necessitate value. Why does sapience grant value to human life?
BEcause it is the trait that separates us from plants and amoebas.
Posted on 5/1/23 at 9:48 am to AggieHank86
quote:
BEcause it is the trait that separates us from plants and amoebas.
Yet we kill our young, they nurture them.
Posted on 5/1/23 at 9:49 am to FooManChoo
quote:Are you a Jain?
Separation from plants and amoebas alone doesn't necessitate value. Why does sapience grant value to human life?
Posted on 5/1/23 at 9:50 am to FooManChoo
quote:
Separation from plants and amoebas alone doesn't necessitate value. Why does sapience grant value to human life?
Wtf
When one lacks an understanding or argument it seems this becomes the preferred debate style. Play 20 questions with the other person and keep asking question after question rather than stating anything and hopefully you’ll be able to find a hole and then "gotcha"!
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