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My alternative view on abortion with solutions (Long)

Posted on 6/27/18 at 10:00 pm
Posted by Ripley
Member since Aug 2016
4524 posts
Posted on 6/27/18 at 10:00 pm
I’m for government subsidized abortion. My reasoning is different from anyone I’ve ever heard argue for or against abortion, in that I take the perspective of what I think is most likely best for the would-be child. And as a secondary effect, I believe abortion is a net positive for society as a whole.

When people against abortion understandably say, “it’s murder” or “I’m not paying for this person’s irresponsibility or mistake”, I see it as wanting to punish the woman/couple at the expense/high risk of the would-be child having a shitty life. I’d rather the couple get off “easy” in people’s eyes than to make them have the kid where he or she has to grow up and live an unfortunate life all because the couple should be punished.

I think that if a woman or a couple are having even the slightest doubt about having the baby, the best choice for the kid, the couple, and society is to terminate the pregnancy. Being a parent is such a big responsibility and a heavy burden that it requires a woman or couple to be all in on welcoming new life in to their life in order to be a GOOD parent in my opinion.

When there are doubts, the inevitable stress of raising the child after birth often leads to resentment and a lack of effort when the “going gets tough”. I’m sure there are plenty of good productive people in our society who overcame the lingering knowledge that they were not wanted by their parents. I’m sure there are plenty who prospered even after receiving a lack of guidance or being neglected during childhood. I know it’s said that it’s better to have a life of suffering than no life at all. I just happen to strongly disagree.

For the children who are born from a mother who spits out child after child in order to capitalize on government subsidies, these same children are growing up with their mother being their prime example of how to go about living their life. Gaming the system in the likeness of their mothers, leading to the continuation of the cycle their mothers started all over again.

I imagine the amount of money we spend on each abortion saves society hundreds of thousands of dollars that would otherwise probably be spent on supporting these kids and then their kids and so on throughout their lives in the end. Abortions should to be strongly encouraged in these cases in my opinion.

A solution to limiting abortions would be to incentivize vasectomies for any males 18 – 25 years old. $12,000 seems like a good # to me. The thought behind it would be that if you make the judgement call of taking the money over having kids in the future (whether you need the money or not), you obviously don’t have the highest aspirations of being a parent in the future therefore you probably shouldn’t have kids. And you won't after you get snipped.

Also, if a person gets 2 or more felonies, part of his or her sentence is automatic sterilization. Cutting off that gene pool would be extremely beneficial to society in the long run.
Posted by V2_Jigsaw
Member since Apr 2017
358 posts
Posted on 6/27/18 at 10:03 pm to
Nice wall of text

My rebuttal is as follows

If u don’t want to impregnate, then don’t inseminate
Posted by V2_Jigsaw
Member since Apr 2017
358 posts
Posted on 6/27/18 at 10:04 pm to
Also actions have consequences
Posted by Ripley
Member since Aug 2016
4524 posts
Posted on 6/27/18 at 10:07 pm to
quote:

Also actions have consequences


Yeah, I get that. But society is paying the consequences for those actions as much as the parents are in my opinion. Not to mention the kid suffers which is the whole point of my wall of text.
This post was edited on 6/27/18 at 10:17 pm
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
42941 posts
Posted on 6/27/18 at 10:08 pm to
But it has a heeaaarrrtttbbbeeaaattttttt. (so does every animal on the planet)

Seriously, you really aren't the first to examine the issue from this angle. It has merit from the perspective of governmental efficiency and even some (marginal) merit from the perspective of "best interest."

But don't expect any traction here. The near-consensus here is that 23 pairs of chromosomes is some sort of trump card, guaranteeing a right to be born. It is what it is.
This post was edited on 6/27/18 at 10:50 pm
Posted by TheMailman
Member since Jul 2017
1550 posts
Posted on 6/27/18 at 10:08 pm to
I'm pro life 100% of the time. Even without the happenings on the court today, I think we are close to reversing R v W. Once we get technology to the point that we can say definitely that there is, for lack of a better term, a gay gene - then the lbgtq bloc will be behind the prolife movement and the law will be reversed in a blink of the eye.
Posted by V2_Jigsaw
Member since Apr 2017
358 posts
Posted on 6/27/18 at 10:15 pm to
The whole benefit to society argument...... ummmm .... that creates a very small step into communist thinking

For instance, China’s birth limit of 1 per couple/family “for the benefit of society”
Posted by beerJeep
Louisiana
Member since Nov 2016
35048 posts
Posted on 6/27/18 at 10:21 pm to
What you’re calling for isn’t new. I’ve said basically the same thing you are now any time I talk about abortion.

quote:

solution to limiting abortions would be to incentivize vasectomies for any males 18 – 25 years old. $12,000 seems like a good # to me

Total sterilization and to both males and females.
Posted by beerJeep
Louisiana
Member since Nov 2016
35048 posts
Posted on 6/27/18 at 10:24 pm to
quote:

I'm pro life 100% of the time.


frick that. Trailer park Tammy has enough children.
quote:

Once we get technology to the point that we can say definitely that there is, for lack of a better term, a gay gene

Lol you serious Clark?
Posted by mahdragonz
Member since Jun 2013
6939 posts
Posted on 6/27/18 at 10:25 pm to
Abortion will never go away bc too many conservatives benefit from it by having them.

There might be a hundred people saying they are pro life.

But then you ask if they know someone who had one, that's usually where that case was the exception to being a baby killer.

Posted by narddogg81
Vancouver
Member since Jan 2012
19711 posts
Posted on 6/27/18 at 10:29 pm to
quote:

But don't expect any traction here. The near-consensus here is that 23 pairs of chromosomes is some sort of trump card, guaranteeing a right to be born. It is what it is.
not true. I don't think you should have been born. But then again you seem like you have like 26 chromosomes
Posted by Bjorn Cyborg
Member since Sep 2016
26809 posts
Posted on 6/27/18 at 10:58 pm to
I’m for government funded abortion clinics on every corner and cash-for-sterilization.

Abortion has kept us from full-blown idiocracy.
Posted by Schmelly
Member since Jan 2014
14489 posts
Posted on 6/27/18 at 11:12 pm to
Big arse wall of text and the rebuttal to that nonsense is 1 word.

ADOPTION

Posted by Ebbandflow
Member since Aug 2010
13457 posts
Posted on 6/28/18 at 5:18 am to
quote:

Nice wall of text

My rebuttal is as follows

If u don’t want to impregnate, then don’t inseminate


The original posters rant was definitely crazy but it wasn't a wall of text. They're called paragraphs.
Posted by TaderSalad
mudbug territory
Member since Jul 2014
24656 posts
Posted on 6/28/18 at 5:20 am to
quote:

TheMailman


There aint no gay genes...
Posted by NC_Tigah
Carolinas
Member since Sep 2003
123945 posts
Posted on 6/28/18 at 5:36 am to
quote:

There aint no gay genes...
There are almost certainly shared genetic and epigenetic etiological factors. IOW there are with near certainty, genes which predilect one to homosexuality. Just as there are the same predilecting to addiction, etc.

But why even go that far?
The general premise regards a "woman's right to choose."
Where does that right terminate?

We've seen related to China's one-child policy, the repeated and deliberate abortion of girls, for no other reason than they are female.

So in essence, I'm not sure what you are arguing.
This post was edited on 6/28/18 at 5:38 am
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
89552 posts
Posted on 6/28/18 at 6:06 am to
quote:

I’m for government subsidized abortion. My reasoning is different from anyone I’ve ever heard argue for or against abortion, in that I take the perspective of what I think is most likely best for the would-be child. And as a secondary effect, I believe abortion is a net positive for society as a whole.


You know there is no substantial difference between your argument here and using the same justification for euthanasia or even selective culling of the human species, don't you?
This post was edited on 6/28/18 at 6:06 am
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
89552 posts
Posted on 6/28/18 at 6:08 am to
quote:

IOW there are with near certainty, genes which predilect one to homosexuality.


Let's assume that I don't disagree significantly - doesn't this run counter to evolutionary theory as there would be no evolutionary advantage to such genes?

In other words, "gay" genes (NTAWWT) would be an evolutionary cul de sac, wouldn't you agree?
Posted by Bass Tiger
Member since Oct 2014
46151 posts
Posted on 6/28/18 at 6:17 am to
quote:

I’m for government subsidized abortion. My reasoning is different from anyone I’ve ever heard argue for or against abortion, in that I take the perspective of what I think is most likely best for the would-be child. And as a secondary effect, I believe abortion is a net positive for society as a whole.


I read your 1st paragraph and felt sorry for you, because you have no relationship with the Creator, with God, with Jesus Christ, or with the Holy Spirit.

I guess the child's best hope in your opinion is death, the level we are devolving to as spiritual beings is heartbreaking.

I will offer no other opinion on this matter with this exception, that conceived child is you, and me, it's an all encompassing us as humanity. Man has made great scientific and technological strides and society has benefited from those achievements in this modern world but our spirits and souls are dying an ever quickening death. Societies collective conscience has been seared to accept the mass extermination of children as a simple medical procedure where no one suffers and as you believe benefits society.
This post was edited on 6/28/18 at 7:22 am
Posted by mauser
Orange Beach
Member since Nov 2008
21628 posts
Posted on 6/28/18 at 6:42 am to
As long as the poor woman who has to get a subsidized abortion gets her tubes tied at the same time.
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