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re: Milo on Jehovah’s Witness, Christian Scientists, Mormons, etc

Posted on 12/5/24 at 1:36 pm to
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
94691 posts
Posted on 12/5/24 at 1:36 pm to
Milo must have access to that good cocaine, now.
Posted by Jack Ruby
Member since Apr 2014
26393 posts
Posted on 12/5/24 at 1:44 pm to
quote:

Catholics are one of the driving forces behind MAGA and populism


Catholics won Trump the election in the Blue Wall ststes, plus all the Latino surge.

Thats why Trump knew Kam skipping the Al Smith dinner was so gallactically stupid.
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
45563 posts
Posted on 12/5/24 at 1:44 pm to
quote:

Show me one piece of Catholic douctine that states anything negative about other faiths
I actually agree with you. Catholicism teaches that a faithful Muslim who sincerely seeks God through Islam can be saved. In fact, a faithful Muslim has a better chance at salvation than a faithful Protestant Christian, who serves Christ with his whole heart, soul, strength, and mind if said Protestant knowingly rejects the Catholic dogmas.

I, as a Reformed Christian (Protestant), can pray to God every day, seeking His care and provision for me; I can attend church weekly; I can believe that Jesus Christ as the only son of God died on the cross to save me; I can preach the gospel to the lost; and I can perform good works consistently, and yet be damned due to my lack of acceptance of some of Rome's teachings while a heathen can be potentially saved by being faithful in their religion, even if their religion rejects Jesus Christ as God and Savior.
Posted by JellyRoll
Member since Apr 2024
1414 posts
Posted on 12/5/24 at 1:47 pm to
That was so stupid, if you don't become Catholic you all go to hell?


Dude just verified he is a retard.
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
45563 posts
Posted on 12/5/24 at 1:50 pm to
quote:

What people don't understand about how us Catholics feel about The Blessed Mother is really so simple that it is hard to believe that they just can't wrap their minds around it.

We give her the honor and respect that every mother should receive. She is the mother of Our Lord Jesus Christ and deserves all the respect and honor we can give her.
We pray for her to pray for us. No different than asking a friend to pray for you, we are asking Our Blessed Mother to pray for us.

Just read the Hail Mary prayer and anyone that questions our adoration for her should be able to comprehend our love for her.

Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee; blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.
The issue isn't that you give honor to Mary, but that Rome attributes to Mary qualities that are reserved for Jesus Christ alone.

As much as Mary was blessed among women, she was merely a woman. Jesus is the God-man, and He intercedes for us with God always. There is no reason why I should pray to anyone else when Jesus is interceding for me as my representative and mediator in Heaven. Jesus loves me as His bride more than any other natural relationships save for that of His love for God the Father and the Spirit, which they have had eternal communion with one another.

If Mary were alive, I would ask her to pray for me like I would ask my biological mother to pray for me or my friend, but since she is in Heaven, I am not to pray to anyone except to God, since prayer is an act of worship, and worship should only be directed to God.

I honor Mary, but I dishonor Christ if I take what belongs to Him and give it to Mary.
Posted by A12 Oxcart
On the float out in the Belt
Member since Dec 2022
1015 posts
Posted on 12/5/24 at 1:56 pm to
quote:

You reject the primacy of the Pope spoken in Christ own words when he gave Peter the keys to heaven and the power to bind and to loosen.

bullshite. What dime store Bible version did you interpret this from?

Also, JWs are a cult.
This post was edited on 12/5/24 at 1:57 pm
Posted by Guntoter1
Baton Rouge
Member since Nov 2020
1557 posts
Posted on 12/5/24 at 2:08 pm to
quote:

I do reject this because it isn't biblical. The keys were given to the Church through the Apostles, not just Peter.


Wow. This is not true. Nowhere does it say this.
It is amazing to me how you can hold two opposing views of things in your mind at the same time.
Please I beg you.
Consider that the infant church struggled and debated all of these subjects and came to a decision .
He left us the church. The church is what gives authority to the Bible.
The Bible does not give authority to the church.
If you were capable of understanding this fact. The rest would fall in place. Your eyes would be opened and you know true joy.
Posted by TigerSprings
Southeast LA
Member since Jan 2019
2341 posts
Posted on 12/5/24 at 2:19 pm to
Protestants say the Apostles Creed by saying "Christian" instead of "Catholic". If you can't even do this, you are definitely not Christian.

The Nicene Creed is antithetical to the 5 Sola's, as "One Baptism for the Forgiveness of Sins" would go against Sola Fide and Sola Gratia. Maybe we can come together if we both agree that Baptism imposes Saving Grace, which Catholics do believe, but only some Protestants.
Also, the 4 Marks of the Church can never be said by Protestants, otherwise they would stop being Protestant.
This is why the Southern Baptists couldn't adopt it.

Foo, you are too good for this childish form of Christianity, it's time to come home to Rome.
Posted by sabanisarustedspoke
Member since Jan 2007
5623 posts
Posted on 12/5/24 at 2:21 pm to
quote:

did he just pretend catholics aren't just as stupid? worshipping a woman who had many kids as if she's still a virgin is just as ridiculous.

if he wants others to grow up, he should set an example. he's incredibly childish.


What planet do you live on? Do you know any Catholics? I don't know or care what beliefs you have but you're ignorant in your posting.
Posted by TigerSprings
Southeast LA
Member since Jan 2019
2341 posts
Posted on 12/5/24 at 2:25 pm to
quote:

Its baffling people want to downgrade TBM


Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid; for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.

They downgrade Her from Notre Dame to just some dame. Totally disregarding The Magnificat.
Posted by KiwiHead
Auckland, NZ
Member since Jul 2014
35743 posts
Posted on 12/5/24 at 2:31 pm to
I was about to say......there are many very stupid things Catholics as well as Orthodox (me) do....worshipping Mary Is not one of them.....I think.
Posted by TheFonz
Somewhere in Louisiana
Member since Jul 2016
22719 posts
Posted on 12/5/24 at 2:42 pm to
Posted by Guntoter1
Baton Rouge
Member since Nov 2020
1557 posts
Posted on 12/5/24 at 2:43 pm to
quote:

Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid; for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.


The key word here is humility.
Foo are you paying attention.
Mary, the first Christian was humble.
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
45563 posts
Posted on 12/5/24 at 2:52 pm to
quote:

quote:

I do reject this because it isn't biblical. The keys were given to the Church through the Apostles, not just Peter.

Wow. This is not true. Nowhere does it say this.
It is amazing to me how you can hold two opposing views of things in your mind at the same time.
I gave you the reference. Check it out for yourself.

Jesus speaks to Peter in Matt. 16 that upon his confession of Christ, Peter will be given the keys to bind and loose. Then in chapter 18, it starts with the disciples asking Jesus who the greatest was among them (confirmed in Mark 9). If Rome's interpretation of Matt. 16 is accurate, this would be a silly question for the disciples to ask, because clearly it would have been Peter. Yet they didn't assume Peter was the greatest among them, and Jesus didn't correct them and say "weren't you listening when I made Peter the Pope and head of the Church?"

But beyond that, Jesus goes on to teach the disciples, eventually coming to the topic of church discipline where Jesus, talking to all the disciples, says this: "Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.”

As you can see, Jesus repeats what He said to Peter about the keys, but He does so to the disciples as a group.

So yes, Peter did have the keys as Jesus told him in Matt. 16, but it's not because Peter was the only one with the keys, but because he was one of several that held the keys because they were to be the Apostles that had Christ's authority over the Church. This authority was then passed on to the elders/overseers for when the Apostles died, so that the "succession" of key-holders wouldn't end in Christ's Church. It just wasn't relegated to Peter alone.

quote:

Please I beg you.
Consider that the infant church struggled and debated all of these subjects and came to a decision.
The Church is not infallible, but only God is. The Church once sided against Athanasius regarding the Arian controversy, with even the Bishop of Rome (Liberius) signing a creed that opposed Athanasius. It's why Athanasius had this phrase said about him, Athanasius contra mundum, or Athanasius against the world. And this was for a critical Christian doctrine on the Trinity and nature of Christ.

So no, the Church has not been perfect and infallible. Only God's Word in the Scriptures is perfect and infallible.

quote:

He left us the church. The church is what gives authority to the Bible.
No. God's word is self-authoritative as God's word. God gave us the Scriptures and the Scriptures, as God's word, have inherent authority.

What you probably mean is that the Church recognized and accepted the Scriptures as the Scriptures, which she did. Believing God's word is God's word is different from claiming authority over God's word.

quote:

The Bible does not give authority to the church.
The Bible is the authority over the Church, because only the Bible is infallible and inerrant. The Bible is God's very word and there is no higher authority than God. The Bible, itself, gives evidence of this. If the Church--the leaders or the members--go against what God has commanded, the Church is to repent. The first few chapters of Revelation speak to this, as well. There is a threatening of God removing the lampstand from the congregations for not doing and being what God has commanded them to do and be.

quote:

If you were capable of understanding this fact. The rest would fall in place. Your eyes would be opened and you know true joy.
I'm quite aware that Catholicism rises or falls on whether or not she is the highest authority. It's what this all boils down to: authority.

Rome teaches that there are three equal authorities: the written tradition (the Bible), the oral apostolic tradition, and the magisterium (the church bishops/councils). Rome also teaches that the magisterium is infallible because she believes the Holy Spirit will not allow the Church to err. Therefore, if the Church decides something is the case, it must be the case, making the Church the highest authority in practice (if the Church determines what is Scripture and how it can be interpreted and if she determines what is oral tradition and how it can be interpreted, then the Church becomes the functional authority over both).

I believe the Scripture teaches that only the Bible is God-breathed and therefore only it is infallible. Because of this, if the Church teaches something that is not taught by God through the Scriptures, either overtly or through good and necessary consequence, then Christians are not bound to obey it but must always obey God rather than men if there is a conflict.

I have true joy in God through His Scriptures as they reveal Jesus Christ. My joy is ultimately in Christ, not in the Church, though I do love Christ's Church.
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
45563 posts
Posted on 12/5/24 at 2:54 pm to
quote:

Well my goodness, you accept the Creed.
That’s not biblical. That is a teaching of the Catholic Church.
Now … continue with that logical train of thought and apply it to EVERYTHING.
You are assuming a logical conclusion that is not necessary.

I accept the creeds because I believe they faithfully summarize the truth as taught in the Scriptures. I do not accept them because I believe they are authoritative in themselves.

Creeds and confessions are helpful only as far as they faithfully express the truth of the Scriptures. The creeds mentioned do this and therefore I accept them.
Posted by jrobic4
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2011
11967 posts
Posted on 12/5/24 at 2:59 pm to
quote:

Faraway's incredibly childish


Posted by StrongOffer
Member since Sep 2020
6308 posts
Posted on 12/5/24 at 3:01 pm to
quote:

making the Church the highest authority in practice (if the Church determines what is Scripture and how it can be interpreted and if she determines what is oral tradition and how it can be interpreted, then the Church becomes the functional authority over both)
The Catholic Church put the 73 books of the Bible together. Otherwise, you wouldn't have the infallible Bible. If the Bible is indeed infallible, wouldn't the group that put it together have at the very least more authority than you or I?
Posted by jrobic4
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2011
11967 posts
Posted on 12/5/24 at 3:05 pm to
quote:

Catholicism teaches that a faithful Muslim who sincerely seeks God through Islam can be saved. In fact, a faithful Muslim has a better chance at salvation than a faithful Protestant Christian


Where do you people come up with this stuff?!
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
45563 posts
Posted on 12/5/24 at 3:07 pm to
quote:

Protestants say the Apostles Creed by saying "Christian" instead of "Catholic". If you can't even do this, you are definitely not Christian.
I'm perfectly fine with saying "catholic" in creeds because I believe there is one Church (catholic just means "universal"; it doesn't speak to the Roman Catholic church as differentiated later in history).

I believe that the Church is comprised of the visible and invisible Church; one church with two aspects. The visible Church are all whom profess faith in the biblical Christ and their children and join themselves to some outward expression of that profession in a local congregation. The invisible Church is comprised of all of the elect of God; those who are saved by Christ, both those who have passed into glory and those who will.

This Church is universal (catholic), so I have no problem saying "catholic" in the creeds because I'm not talking about the Roman papacy.

quote:

The Nicene Creed is antithetical to the 5 Sola's, as "One Baptism for the Forgiveness of Sins" would go against Sola Fide and Sola Gratia. Maybe we can come together if we both agree that Baptism imposes Saving Grace, which Catholics do believe, but only some Protestants.
I don't believe baptism imposes (infuses) saving grace, no. We are saved by faith alone, not through baptism.

However I do believe in one baptism for the remission (forgiveness) of sins, not that the baptism infuses grace and saves anyone but that baptism is a sign and seal the forgiveness of sins received by faith through the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

quote:

Also, the 4 Marks of the Church can never be said by Protestants, otherwise they would stop being Protestant.
This is why the Southern Baptists couldn't adopt it.
I agree that the Church is one, holy, catholic, and apostolic. I just don't believe those words mean the exact same thing Roman Catholics mean by them.

quote:

Foo, you are too good for this childish form of Christianity, it's time to come home to Rome.
I appreciate the concern, but I cannot deny my savior by looking to mere men for my salvation
This post was edited on 12/5/24 at 3:39 pm
Posted by FooManChoo
Member since Dec 2012
45563 posts
Posted on 12/5/24 at 3:10 pm to
quote:

The Catholic Church put the 73 books of the Bible together. Otherwise, you wouldn't have the infallible Bible. If the Bible is indeed infallible, wouldn't the group that put it together have at the very least more authority than you or I?
The question isn't whether or not the Church has authority, but what the highest authority is? I don't deny that the Church has authority but I deny that she is authoritative in herself as a separate standard from God's word.

Rome says that the Church is the final authority (at least, in practice), while I say that God is the final authority and His Word is what we have as His revelation that is authoritative for us.

Rome says that the Bible is the Bible because of the Church where Protestants say the Bible is the Bible because it is God's revelation and therefore it is His word and authority.
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