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re: Making a product "too good". Has this ever been a problem with a product?
Posted on 2/20/17 at 12:11 pm to bhtigerfan
Posted on 2/20/17 at 12:11 pm to bhtigerfan
quote:
This discussion was started because he said that US auto makers purposely made cars that would wear out so you would buy a new one. I disagreed.
Planned obsolescence was less about making them not last and more about changing the designs regularly. So that if you bought a new Ford Mustang in 1975, by 1977 it was "the old design". If your target audience contains a lot of "early adapters" or enthusiasts (electronics and some automobiles), you can pull this off and have them buying a new model every few years even when they don't need one.
I think the shitty cars that Chrysler made in the 1980s was more about them being unable to offer decent fuel efficient cars than anything else. They basically made disposable K cars by accident and it ruined their brand.
The big 3 have always made good pickups and SUVs because they are bigger and higher margin. It's their core competency.
We can argue that Apple subscribes to this "planned obsolescence" model with their iPhone models. It's as much them trying to stay ahead of the competition. Either way, they have lines outside of their stores every time they release a new iPhone. Did the old iPhones suddenly stop working? No. They just are no longer the "latest and greatest" thing.
You can't really do that unless your product attracts early adopters. Think 1960s Ford Mustang, 2000's iPhone, etc. When you make a durable good (consumer products that last 5+ years), you have to provide reasons for the consumer to return. It's not like you are building ink jet cartridge or paper plates.
Another current example of "planned obsolescence" would be performance cars. You wait in line and get the brand new Corvette....but next year there is a Corvette Z06 model that's out, and your Corvette is no longer the coolest new model. The year after that, there's a ZL1 model that's out with even more performance and gadgets. There's nothing wrong with the Corvette you bought, but as a fan of the car, you are likely drawn to the new models that come out with minor changes every year.
Only the biggest car guys buy a new Porsche every few years, and they won't do it unless Porsche offers something new almost constantly. If the 2017 Porsche is the same as their 2015 model, they'll just hang on to their 2015 model....so Porsche adds new colors or options that they kept out of the 2015 model.
This post was edited on 2/20/17 at 12:33 pm
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Posted on 2/20/17 at 12:11 pm to bhtigerfan
Thought this was another Trump-fawning thread. I MAGA'd, but am glad I was wrong about the thread. Too much fellating going on. Not sure what this is doing on the PT board.
A 40 year old microwave? I am not surprised it still works, but I would be wary about the shielding.
Cars are my thing. I believe European cars hold up much better than American ones (not including trucks). I had a Volvo that felt as solid 4 years later as the day I drove it off the lot, and the BMW I drive now is the same. They just don't develop the rattles and loose bits that American cars do. Cost more when things DO go wrong, but they go wrong a lot less often, in my experience. (The wife had a Mercedes I was less thrilled with, but it was made in Alabama. Interpret that as you will.)
A 40 year old microwave? I am not surprised it still works, but I would be wary about the shielding.
Cars are my thing. I believe European cars hold up much better than American ones (not including trucks). I had a Volvo that felt as solid 4 years later as the day I drove it off the lot, and the BMW I drive now is the same. They just don't develop the rattles and loose bits that American cars do. Cost more when things DO go wrong, but they go wrong a lot less often, in my experience. (The wife had a Mercedes I was less thrilled with, but it was made in Alabama. Interpret that as you will.)
This post was edited on 2/20/17 at 12:16 pm
Posted on 2/20/17 at 12:11 pm to Brosef Stalin
My wife and I bought our Maytag W&D back in 91, still going strong. It pays to buy quality.
Posted on 2/20/17 at 12:12 pm to seawolf06
quote:Bought some GE LED bulbs that are "supposed" to last for 27 years. Half of them didn't last for 27 days.
See LED light bulbs
Posted on 2/20/17 at 12:13 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
planned obsolescence is a thing.
It is, but it's not the same as mean time to failure.
Planned obsolescence is the idea that a product will run its course due to a newer, better product or software platform. Apple releases a new iOS version that isn't compatible with your current iPhone, resulting in apps not updating or working properly, and in many times sluggish hardware.
The user becomes frustrated and dumps a perfectly useful device for the latest and greatest one.
Mean time to failure is a known value to a manufacturer, used in production cost ratios for products like tvs, washers, etc. Sony is famous for utilizing MTF in its products. As a result, consumers are forced to purchase new products due to inferior internal components known to a manufacturer as a single point of failure.
Posted on 2/20/17 at 12:14 pm to The Spleen
quote:It's called "the borken window fallacy".
I once read a pretty interesting thesis that argued one of the causes of the Great Depression was many goods were made too well, reducing the need to replace, thus reducing demand.
Posted on 2/20/17 at 12:16 pm to bhtigerfan
Bridget Fonda. Now that is a hooker that lasted a long time.
Posted on 2/20/17 at 12:17 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Yes, planned obsolescence is a thing.
For a very very very long time in American industry.
I think Bic shavers started the ball rolling in this ideology. They sold their sturdy life-lasting chrome safety razors - and razor blades cost nothing. So they weren't making enough money. Once you bought a razor, that was it - usually for life.
Ergo, the disposable razor with piece of crap blades that you can use maybe twice.
Don't sell just the razor blades, sell the razor blades and razor as a molded unit and you can jack up the price of a cheap razor blade - because it's just basically a razor blade attached to a plastic stick.
I watched a documentary where they show there is still a light bulb in some old firehouse that has been running for over 80 years.
Just like with razors, lightbulbs and batteries had to ensure to make products that had a very short shelf-life - even though they could make shite that basically lasts forever.
This post was edited on 2/20/17 at 12:19 pm
Posted on 2/20/17 at 12:19 pm to Ag Zwin
quote:In my opionion, BMW's and Mercedes-Benz's are "over-engineered". Meaning many of their electronics and engines are overly complicated. It's the German way.
Cars are my thing. I believe European cars hold up much better than American ones (not including trucks). I had a Volvo that felt as solid 4 years later as the day I drove it off the lot, and the BMW I drive now is the same. They just don't develop the rattles and loose bits that American cars do. Cost more when things DO go wrong, but they go wrong a lot less often, in my experience.
I'm a firm believer in simplicity and less moving parts equals less costs and less failures.
Same thing with appliances. I've got an 8 year old Estate washer/dryer set that has never had a problem and I bet will last another 20 years.
Posted on 2/20/17 at 12:21 pm to bhtigerfan
Chris Rock (1999)
quote:
shite, they got metal on the space shuttle that can go around the moon...
You mean to tell me you don't think they can make an Eldorado where the f***ing bumper don't fall off?
They can, but they won't.
Posted on 2/20/17 at 12:21 pm to Remote Controlled
quote:
Planned obsolescence is the idea that a product will run its course due to a newer, better product or software platform. Apple releases a new iOS version that isn't compatible with your current iPhone, resulting in apps not updating or working properly, and in many times sluggish hardware.
This is a pretty good example. They have to give their happiest consumers a reason to move to the latest and greatest.
That does not mean that the iPhone you have now or the Camaro in your driveway will suddenly stop working in a few years. It just means that they'll hold out on some features and design changes in the models they sell this year to give you a reason to buy the one they make next year and so on.
The Mercedes E300 is a fine car. Next year there will be an AMG version that everyone will be talking about. Maybe the year after that they'll have new colors available, or self-driving features that gets their loyal customers back into the showroom. It's really hard to avoid doing this if all of your competitors do it as well. It's almost a requirement to stay on top.
This post was edited on 2/20/17 at 12:27 pm
Posted on 2/20/17 at 12:28 pm to bhtigerfan
quote:
In my opionion, BMW's and Mercedes-Benz's are "over-engineered". Meaning many of their electronics and engines are overly complicated. It's the German way.
They design products to be obsolete as well. Maybe typical person doesn't notice, but the "early adopters" among the Mercedes or BMW customer base do and they respond to things like new performance models, minor design changes, colors, etc.
The additional technology in cars these days makes it easy. The infotainment in a 2017 car will look archaic and old school by 2019.
Posted on 2/20/17 at 12:28 pm to goofball
I remember hearing a story about hand driers. Company made them so good that lasted forever so they bought them all back and leased them back to customers with a service contract so they would continue to make money.
Posted on 2/20/17 at 12:31 pm to bhtigerfan
quote:
Had a discussion with a friend about this. If a company makes a product that lasts a very long time, they will sell very few "replacements". But on the upside, everyone will want to buy it because it's the best.
This discussion was started because he said that US auto makers purposely made cars that would wear out so you would buy a new one. I disagreed.
I used the Toyota Land Cruiser as an example.
Planned obsolescence was an accepted strategy in the American auto industry until the late 70's-early 80's. But the Japanese adopted a manufacturing/production strategy (TQM) which focused on quality. It was promoted by Dr. W. Edwards Deming, an American engineer/professor/management consultant, whom the American automotive industry initially ignored, enjoying a comfortable market advantage after WWII. It didn't take many years for Americans to catch on but not before the Japanese had captured a huge global market segment.
Deming Prize
This post was edited on 2/20/17 at 12:54 pm
Posted on 2/20/17 at 12:33 pm to bhtigerfan
quote:
US auto makers purposely made cars that would wear out so you would buy a new one. I disagreed.
Less to do with this and more to do with the skill and craft of the Japanese.
Posted on 2/20/17 at 12:34 pm to goofball
quote:
In my opionion, BMW's and Mercedes-Benz's are "over-engineered". Meaning many of their electronics and engines are overly complicated. It's the German way.
And yet whose origins and philosophy in car making was building a simple, affordable car that seemed to last forever.
Posted on 2/20/17 at 12:51 pm to bhtigerfan
Some of the new light bulbs might be too good for repeat sales
Posted on 2/20/17 at 12:54 pm to Porky
quote:Interesting. Never heard of this before.
Planned obsolescence was an accepted strategy in the American auto industry until the 70's when the Japanese industry adopted a manufacturing/production strategy which focused on quality. It was promoted by Dr. W. Edwards Deming, an American engineer/professor/management consultant, whom the American automotive industry initially ignored, enjoying a comfortable market advantage at the time. It didn't take many years for Americans to catch on but not before the Japanese had captured a huge global market segment.
Deming Prize
Posted on 2/20/17 at 12:56 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:Not anymore.
And yet whose origins and philosophy in car making was building a simple, affordable car that seemed to last forever.
Posted on 2/20/17 at 12:57 pm to eddieray
quote:Not the GE's my wife bought.
Some of the new light bulbs might be too good for repeat sales
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