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re: Louisiana, it's time for a new constitution l Small towns are dead

Posted on 4/12/20 at 1:24 am to
Posted by davyjones
NELA
Member since Feb 2019
35176 posts
Posted on 4/12/20 at 1:24 am to
So what shall we do about the state monies sunk into mismanaged governments of the likes of New Orleans, Baton Rouge, Shreveport etc? Oh, I guess the monies seized from the little guy communities could be thrown at it and pray for the best.

Perhaps those larger cities could be partitioned into strategically tailored "districts" and in an effort to craft more responsible use of state funds.
Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
69380 posts
Posted on 4/12/20 at 1:50 am to
I think it depends on how one wants to proceed. Each of those cities supports one or two thriving (relatively speaking) suburb parish that is dependent upon the urban "mismanaged" parish for its economy. Caddo has Bossier, East Baton Rouge has Ascension and Livingston, and New Orleans has Jefferson, St. Tammany, and arguably St. Bernard and St. Charles.

So, we can ask ourselves, what is it that cities are doing wrong that these outlying parishes are not? Where is the state money going verses where is it generated? Is the issue for these cities a lack of taxing base? Is it bad retirement contracts that are insolvent? Is it unnecessary duplication of services? Is it high salaries? Where is the money going?

I am of the opinion that we have both a revenue and a corruption problem. I do not believe that under the current funding framework that many of these towns could survive even with zero corruption. There's simply no revenues being generated because there's no people and no economic activity happening outside of maybe a dollar general and a gas station. That's not enough sales tax to actually pay for anything. The way our tax system is set up, there are basically three ways parishes can generate revenue:
1. sales taxes (which they can't make too high because the state already levies substantial sales taxes)
2. property taxes (which are severely limited by homestead exemption for residential property, by ITEP and similar developer giveaway taxation shenanigans for industrial and commercial property, and our weird tax assessed valuations for agriculture)
3. Ticket revenues.

Farms and small houses basically generate no sales tax or property tax revenues. So, unless you have a lot of retail and some industrial property that isn't currently getting ITEP exemptions, your community has almost no revenue.

In my opinion, the issues in the state are multi-faceted. I think we need fewer parishes and fewer courthouses. At the same time, those parishes need to have a lot more power. They need more responsibilities and more ability to generate revenue. That means fewer state highways, and turning over control of lots of unelected boards and commissions which manage purely local responsibilities back to local governments. If the local governments fail, let them fail. Let people vote with their feet.

At the same time, the State government should have far less responsibility and tax individuals less so that parishes can make up the difference. The closer to the action the money is, the more accountable the public servants are to the voters. If my parish counsel person does something I don't like, they have to tell me why at church, in the grocery store, and at the football game on friday night. Some random bureaucrat in a state agency can never be found to be held accountable for anything.

We need to get rid of the inventory tax and inventory tax credit system. We need to abolish the state income and corporate taxes. At the same time, we probably need to increase the gas taxes. We need to legalize marijuana, sports gambling, and expand gaming. We need to drastically overhaul our licensing and permitting requirements for many classes of businesses. There is zero reason why florists need to have a license to operate. That's just silly. The biggest overhauls need to come in education. So much of the revenue is taxed at the state level and distributed back to the parishes with strings, yet little oversight. I think we need to take a hard look at what Mississippi is doing with regards to its focus on literacy in primary schools. If we can start improving those inner-city schools, it will do wonders for attracting outside investment. That will increase the tax base of these cities. Better schools will encourage more people to live in the city limits rather than live out in suburbs. That will encourage more in-fill development and less sprawl. Greater urban population density means less strain on interstates as well as improves metrics national chains and developers use to evaluate sites for expansion. Better schools will inevitably result in less crime down the road as fewer students will go on to drop out and resort to crime.

Improving those schools will turn revenue takers into revenue makers. It will improve traffic and improve crime without substantial increases in government spending. The model is already in place and working just one state over. Let's f&%king roll and get this shite done! Louisiana is in bad shape, but these problems are very fixable. We just have to want to actually fix them rather than allow the people who profit from the status quo to keep it that way while we throw our hands up and assume we can't have anything better.
This post was edited on 4/12/20 at 2:01 am
Posted by bengalfan50
Louisiana
Member since Mar 2009
2683 posts
Posted on 4/12/20 at 2:46 am to
I moved to Mishawaka Ind. on the St. Joe river to work at a steel mill west of South Bend.
Eventually moved to La Porte due to travel in snow and rented a Ladies basement of a three bedroom house with around 1800 sq. ft.

There were no sales tax or income tax. The property tax this widow paid was between $8,000 to $8,500 a year with her vehicle tags at $1,500 set by age of vehicle and hers was an older car, she also paid a school tax but don't remember the number. Now this was a number of years ago so the numbers would be inflated by now.

This state is run by unorganized crime that indoctrinate new elected members each and every year and you guys want them to be given an open check book with no limits....thats to say y'all trust them.

We need a constitutional convention in the worst possible way. The brutal truth is we don't need it bad enough to let this group loose with a taxation with no representation and that is exactly what will happen.
The state as a whole along with the media bought the "if we don't raise taxes LSU football will prolly be cancelled". When the two are not remotely related.

When you drop your income tax and sales tax for double or triple that amount in property taxes there will be a lot of whining.....but there will be no recourse because you will have given unorganized crime the keys to the vault....wages there were at the time almost double what they were here....unemployment there was $800 a week compared to $210 here....it had to be that high to keep the tax dollars coming.....when they smack you with these new and much higher taxes do you think your wages will increase to match the new better system or will people avoid the stigma of owning property just to survive....y'all are some dumb sh!ts if you think this turns out like Texas or any other state....we are in Louisiana, repeat that slowly, we are in Louisiana where politicians keep bundles of cash in the freezer for seven sakes.....

Can not get what needs to be done in this state with the political structure that we have.....they will not let it be good they will insure it is not in your favor or the States for that matter.....
Posted by davyjones
NELA
Member since Feb 2019
35176 posts
Posted on 4/12/20 at 2:55 am to
I can certainly appreciate most of what you dutifully laid out there. I think the best thing I can say for now regarding the specific issue of such a momentous program as essentially overhauling the map is that it is so drastic in its potential unintended consequences that it seems best reserved as a nuclear plan. It's just hard to envision basically what would be a new state by the same name. And I can't even begin to fathom the battle lines that would be drawn and resulting angst. But I acknowledge that it's at least worthy of discussion, in doing so perhaps alternative proposals would arise that would also be worthy of consideration.
Posted by Palm Beach Tiger
Orlando, Florida
Member since Jan 2007
30070 posts
Posted on 4/12/20 at 2:59 am to
Here in orlando the police are writing more speeding tickets than ever right now.
Posted by davyjones
NELA
Member since Feb 2019
35176 posts
Posted on 4/12/20 at 3:05 am to
Gives new meaning to "spread em".
Posted by lsufan1971
Zachary
Member since Nov 2003
23806 posts
Posted on 4/12/20 at 3:48 am to
quote:

It’s akin to hoping Santa is real


Yep. Like all the Sheriffs And other elected officials are going to just say okay to consolidate govt. There is a better chance of Congress passing term limits than LA elected officials giving up their jobs.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
467865 posts
Posted on 4/12/20 at 5:49 am to
quote:

But as far as state money

this is about all money extracted from individuals to run these governments, primarily the administrative costs of that endeavor

if state money funded these towns and villages, then they wouldn't need their own tax structure and wouldn't be in such dire straights

then if you move to a parish level, you see the same issue. why does Tensas Parish or Cameron Parish needs its own government? their populations combined are about the same as the metropolis of Jennings. we are talking about police juries, parish admin employees, courts (and their staffs), etc.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
467865 posts
Posted on 4/12/20 at 5:57 am to
quote:

And I would have to hear of an example of state taxpayers propping up a bankrupt small Louisiana town

look at the article. it's already about to happen with a TON of these small towns and that was before COVID-19 came to town

a lot of these have debt and can't just fizzle out, so the state will have to take over the admin

to combat their debts, these towns have just started writing tickets. that won't save them moving forward. LA is about to get BAD
Posted by Little Trump
Florida
Member since Nov 2017
5817 posts
Posted on 4/12/20 at 6:08 am to
How many of these local municipalities are run by democrats?

Democrats can’t comprehend only spending what’s in budget and won’t fire government workers?

Democrat leaders are cancer combined with poison in leadership qualities

We don’t need politicians giving away the house, leading our government positions anymore! They’re leading us off a cliff! We need businessmen like Trump
Posted by 200MPHCOBRA
Member since Nov 2016
494 posts
Posted on 4/12/20 at 6:26 am to
Do what the rest of us do, cut spending until the budget balances.
Posted by davyjones
NELA
Member since Feb 2019
35176 posts
Posted on 4/12/20 at 5:33 pm to
quote:

this is about all money extracted from individuals to run these governments, primarily the administrative costs of that endeavor

But doesn't it end up being state govt extracting money from individuals to then turn around and allocate to a small subdivision of govt any way you slice it, based on the subdivision's population? Seems the state will be allocating the same amount of money per individual on average, no matter which way you cut it. It's only a matter of which subdivision the allocation is....allocated to. lol. Double up allocations to doubled up subdivisions, or single allocations to single subdivisions, to put it in oversimplified terms I guess.

Now, might there be neighboring subdivisions that feel a cooperative endeavor between them could be more thrifty, perhaps. But that would seem to be a decision that should be made by them alone, if it's even allowed. Maybe a new constitution could provide for that. Otherwise, single subdivisions must figure out how to be more responsible and thrifty or it's ghost town time for them.

I definitely agree, before it's all said and done, either way it looks like there's some very tough road to hoe ahead. Also, as far as coming up with a new constitution, our leaders are likely skittish of this because our state has tinkered with it's constitution probably more than any other state in the union.
This post was edited on 4/12/20 at 5:40 pm
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
41901 posts
Posted on 4/12/20 at 6:03 pm to
quote:

St. Gabriel and SG should probably be in Ascension Parish.


Fixed it
Posted by southdowns84
Member since Dec 2009
1612 posts
Posted on 4/12/20 at 6:19 pm to
quote:

eliminate the income tax


No state has ever done this. No chance we could pull this off.
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
41901 posts
Posted on 4/12/20 at 6:31 pm to
quote:


No state has ever done this. No chance we could pull this off.


Few states have such a big budget per capita.
It goes back to our populist roots under Huey Long and continued under EWE and his constitutional convention. The state dominates and required mucho dinero.
Posted by SevenLinesofPine
Mississippi
Member since Feb 2013
746 posts
Posted on 4/12/20 at 6:35 pm to
Reduce ya'll's parishes. Call them counties already. Reduace ya'll's one hundred separate universities too. Problem solved.
Posted by davyjones
NELA
Member since Feb 2019
35176 posts
Posted on 4/12/20 at 6:45 pm to
Hmm. Good idea. I'm sending an email to my representative to get that done next legislative session.



ETA....Im also suggesting we do away with Mardi Gras in the State of Louisiana to maybe avert any maybe future virus spread. I don't think anyone will mind doing this.
This post was edited on 4/12/20 at 6:48 pm
Posted by boudinman
Member since Nov 2019
6101 posts
Posted on 4/12/20 at 6:57 pm to
The solution is to slap a processing tax on every barrel of foreign crude oil that is refined in America.

Louisiana continues to rely on the severance tax enacted in 1921, meaning we tax only the oil and gas produced in our state and within 3 miles of our coast.

A modest 4% Louisiana state processing tax would yield approximately $6 billion/year.

But the Louisiana state legislature is beholden to the oil and gas lobby, and won't pass it.
Posted by Indefatigable
Member since Jan 2019
35889 posts
Posted on 4/12/20 at 7:16 pm to
Nope. The state needs a new constitution but the current legislature is full of the most low IQ retards on the planet. I do not want them writing one goddamn thing. It WILL be worse

There is no realistic solution. Leave the state.
This post was edited on 4/12/20 at 7:19 pm
Posted by SevenLinesofPine
Mississippi
Member since Feb 2013
746 posts
Posted on 4/12/20 at 7:51 pm to
quote:

The solution is to slap a processing tax on every barrel of foreign crude oil that is refined in America. Louisiana continues to rely on the severance tax enacted in 1921, meaning we tax only the oil and gas produced in our state and within 3 miles of our coast. A modest 4% Louisiana state processing tax would yield approximately $6 billion/year. But the Louisiana state legislature is beholden to the oil and gas lobby, and won't pass it.


You honestly don't think that wouldn't send all those businesses over to Mississippi instead? Yeah, please enact that now!
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