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Posted on 10/13/20 at 11:46 am to supatigah
Have not read the entire thread, but does the shooter know the victim is holding mace and not a handgun? Just looking at the video, the victim could be pulling out a gun, making a second decision making process even harder.
Posted on 10/13/20 at 11:48 am to banone74
quote:
but does the shooter know the victim is holding mace
Ummm.
Yes. He encountered the security team, the killer and the BGM guy earlier with the mace in his hand.
The mace was in his hand the whole time
A trained security guard from Pinkerton should know what a gun looks like and what a can of mace looks like. That may be day 1 of training.
This post was edited on 10/13/20 at 11:50 am
Posted on 10/13/20 at 11:50 am to banone74
quote:
Have not read the entire thread, but does the shooter know the victim is holding mace and not a handgun?
The shooter knows that Keltner was holding mace.
Posted on 10/13/20 at 11:51 am to ninthward
quote:Amazing that 9News was formally interviewing Kelly Lebron Jacobs prior to the conclusion of the Patriot event, right outside the exit of the venue.
What blows my mind still is the last three people victim had contact with before his death all knew each other. Again how does that happen?
Amazing that Helen Richardson of the Denver Post managed to get this photo (third altercation with Kelly Lebron Jacobs);
...and these photos (fourth altercation with Kelly Lebron Jacobs - the individual with the red shirt in the rear left was his second altercation as he was leaving the Patriot event);
And was there to photograph the death of Lee Keltner immediately afterwards (though we seem to be missing some photos from her camera)...
And then write the following;
quote:
The incident occurred after a man participating in what was billed a “Patriot Rally” sprayed mace at another man. That man then shot the other individual with a handgun near the courtyard outside the Denver Art Museum.
...and yet there was no malice on the part of anyone.
So tell me, who has controlling financial interest in 9News and the Denver Post?
Rest in Peace Lee. You were murdered during a photo opportunity by a Leftist Media conglomeration that went wrong.
Guess that means there was no affirmative malice on the part of anyone.
Posted on 10/13/20 at 11:53 am to AggieHank86
quote:
Dolloff pulled the trigger of his weapon AFTER Keltner raised SOMETHING in his right hand,
That is not what happened.
From what I see the producer (blue shirt) said or did something to get the victims attention. The victim raised his right arm and hand with the mace in it, points and moves in the direction of the shooter and producer. The shooter jumps in between the producer and the victim putting his hands on the victim in what appears to be a shoving motion. (I do not think the shooter was reaching for the mace.) The victim slaps the shooter becasue he was shoved by the shooter. The shooter pulls his weapon and shoots the victim. The victim sprays mace but was too late. The end. Litterally for the victim.
Posted on 10/13/20 at 11:53 am to Wolfhound45
quote:
You were murdered during a photo opportunity by a Leftist Media conglomeration that went wrong.
I'll say it again: The MainstreamMedia in Current Year are no less an enemy to freedom than the Communists/Nazis/Jihadists ever were.
Posted on 10/13/20 at 11:54 am to roadGator
quote:He put the gas spray device in his hand less than a minute before he was shot. Probably closer to 10-15 seconds.
The mace was in his hand the whole time
It was NOT in his hand early during his chest-bumping episode with BGM Guy. It appeared there approximately the time that the old guy separated them.
This post was edited on 10/13/20 at 11:56 am
Posted on 10/13/20 at 11:54 am to AggieHank86
A man is dead who went to peaceably assemble. He was baited into a media event and a Leftist shot him in the face and you are making excuses for it. You can surmise what you will.
Posted on 10/13/20 at 11:56 am to AggieHank86
quote:
Dolloff unholstered his weapon in response to Keltner’s assault on Dolloff. (Feel free to minimize the assault by calling it a “slap,” but it a rose is a rose by any name.)
By your own logic of calling this a homicide and not a murder because of statutory definitions, Keltner did not assault Dolloff. This is evidence of your bias: selective application of logic.
quote:
Dolloff pulled the trigger of his weapon AFTER Keltner raised SOMETHING in his right hand,
Keltner raised SOMETHING in his right hand AFTER Dolloff raised a HANDGUN. This is more evidence of your bias: you selectively omit pertinent information.
Posted on 10/13/20 at 11:57 am to auggie
Ok that for sure changes things. I wasn’t sure how long this altercation went on, all I saw was the short video. Thanks guys, just a sad situation all around
Posted on 10/13/20 at 11:57 am to AggieHank86
Lol. No. The pictures are on the last page. Just stop.
Posted on 10/13/20 at 11:58 am to AggieHank86
quote:I guess you cannot see his right hand then.
It was NOT in his hand early during his chest-bumping episode with BGM Guy. It appeared there approximately the time that the old guy separated them.
Posted on 10/13/20 at 11:58 am to Tiguar
quote:
This is more evidence of your bias: you selectively omit pertinent information.
Sigh...I only wish Shorty Rob were here...
He was excellent at delivering the coup de grâce to Hanks' semantical, bullshite arguments.
Posted on 10/13/20 at 11:58 am to Wolfhound45
Lol at Hank
Posted on 10/13/20 at 11:59 am to roadGator
He’ll keep digging and upvote his own posts
Posted on 10/13/20 at 12:00 pm to AggieHank86
quote:Hank, I know you like to troll with the 'devil's advocate' position, but you're offbase with this.
You cannot de facto defend someone, simply because you do not hold a license to do so de jure?
OK
This was a peaceful rally for Side A, which had completed and people were leaving and returning to their cars, just like people leaving a stadium after a game.
Side B, which doesn't like Side A, had a couple people out there fricking with Side A. For the sole purpose of creating conflict. That's what this "agitator" was doing. He was confronting people in an extremely aggressive manner, and refusing to have a civil conversation. That is on tape in several episodes. It wasn't "at" the rally, it was "near" and "after" it.
Media crew and gun man, who have known sympathies with Side B, were out there specifically with this agitator, filming the conflicts.
Just to clarify how stupid this was, swap from politics to sports. This is like an Atlanta Falcons fan harassing Saints fans, after a Saints game against someone other than the Falcons, as they try to go back to their cars. They weren't involved, they just want to start trouble.
So like I said, this small group (agitator and media) is harassing and attacking people coming from a lawful assembly, for the sole purpose of creating conflict. No other purpose to be out there. No attempt at creating calm and civil dialogue, just shouting and threatening. They succeeded in provoking a man who responded, but not with deadly force- and then shot and killed him.
With no proper authorization to serve as a 'security detail', he was simply an armed man in a group provoking others, who used deadly force on those that were provoked.
Sure, technically, anyone can intercede to defend anyone else, even a stranger. Years ago a private citizen in Baton Rouge shot and killed a man who was beating a police officer on the ground. He wasn't charged.
This clearly isn't that case.
Posted on 10/13/20 at 12:00 pm to TBoy
quote:
The "patriot" strikes the guy in the face, then steps back and fires pepper spray directly into the guy's face, and then the guy who was just struck and sprayed fires a sidearm? That's a messy situation which doesn't fit this narrative that y'all are pushing.
It doesn't fit the narrative because you have the narrative wrong. There are plenty of pictures and videos to watch if you would have bothered to learn about what happened. Just look at the OP.
Posted on 10/13/20 at 12:02 pm to AggieHank86
quote:30 seconds. Half of which involved Kelly screaming about the mace can Keltner was holding.
Probably closer to 10-15 seconds.
Posted on 10/13/20 at 12:04 pm to Tiguar
quote:Yes, it was not a criminal assault under Colorado law. It was, however, a civil assault followed by a civil battery.
By your own logic of calling this a homicide and not a murder because of statutory definitions, Keltner did not assault Dolloff.
I am NOT saying that it was or was not a "murder." That has yet to be determined. I think it is a close call, that will ultimately turn upon the burden of proof lying with the State.
quote:Where did I put Keltner raising his device in the full chronological sequence again?
Keltner raised SOMETHING in his right hand AFTER Dolloff raised a HANDGUN. This is more evidence of your bias: you selectively omit pertinent information.
That's right, I put it AFTER Dolloff unholstered and raised his handgun. No, I did not include the entire sequence in every single post.
This post was edited on 10/13/20 at 12:06 pm
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