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Started By
Message
re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict.
Posted on 11/20/25 at 12:59 pm to CitizenK
Posted on 11/20/25 at 12:59 pm to CitizenK
quote:
How many Russians die to take a football field sized chunk?
Considering there are 484 football fields in a square mile and given casualty estimates…like less than 0.1 of a Russian.
Try math next time?
0
Posted on 11/20/25 at 1:13 pm to LARancher1991
quote:
That's all great but at some point the trading land for time has to stop. They don't have much more land to trade in the Donetsk region. It's not a winning tactic unless you have the ability to counter attack and retake what was lost which Ukraine does not. Yes, they can take land back here and there but they do not have the ability to trade land for time indefinitely. Especially now that there are reports that Putin and Trump are working on another peace deal. As far as the Kursk thing yea it made a good headline but strategically was about the dumbest thing they could've done.
Losing 1000 soldiers per a football field is not even an actual snail's pace.
Posted on 11/20/25 at 1:26 pm to cypher
Over 300 Successful Ground Strikes: Ukrainian F-16s in Action
Ukrainian F-16 fighter jets have performed over 300 successful strikes against Russian invaders’ ground positions.
The Ukrainian Air Force Command reported this.
The military noted that the first F-16s appeared in Ukraine’s skies in August 2024, thanks to military assistance from partner countries.
The Air Force noted that, in addition to air defense missions, these fighter jets are also used to provide air support for Ukrainian ground forces.
“F-16 pilots have struck more than 300 ground targets, destroying hundreds of pieces of enemy equipment, command posts, UAV control centers, ammunition depots, and the enemy’s logistics,” the Command reported.
To strike enemy ground targets, these fighters use American lightweight, high-precision GBU-39/B Small Diameter Bombs, weighing 130 kilograms, with a maximum range of up to 110 km when released from high altitude.
In addition, heavier bombs equipped with JDAM-ER (Extended Range) kits are used. These kits convert conventional bombs into guided munitions that are directed via GPS and inertial navigation, while fold-out wings extend their range.
Ukrainian F-16 fighter jets have also intercepted over 1,300 Russian missiles and drones during their time in service – weapons the enemy used to attack cities and infrastructure.
Aviation personnel are implementing their own innovative approaches to conducting air and air-defense combat.
In October, the United States stated that the F-16 fighter jets provided to Ukraine as part of military aid account for about 80% of all combat sorties conducted by Ukrainian aviation.
The Ukrainian Air Force called the acquisition of F-16 fighter jets a historic moment for the country and a significant breakthrough in strengthening its aviation capabilities.
Militarnyi
Ukrainian F-16 fighter jets have performed over 300 successful strikes against Russian invaders’ ground positions.
The Ukrainian Air Force Command reported this.
The military noted that the first F-16s appeared in Ukraine’s skies in August 2024, thanks to military assistance from partner countries.
The Air Force noted that, in addition to air defense missions, these fighter jets are also used to provide air support for Ukrainian ground forces.
“F-16 pilots have struck more than 300 ground targets, destroying hundreds of pieces of enemy equipment, command posts, UAV control centers, ammunition depots, and the enemy’s logistics,” the Command reported.
To strike enemy ground targets, these fighters use American lightweight, high-precision GBU-39/B Small Diameter Bombs, weighing 130 kilograms, with a maximum range of up to 110 km when released from high altitude.
In addition, heavier bombs equipped with JDAM-ER (Extended Range) kits are used. These kits convert conventional bombs into guided munitions that are directed via GPS and inertial navigation, while fold-out wings extend their range.
Ukrainian F-16 fighter jets have also intercepted over 1,300 Russian missiles and drones during their time in service – weapons the enemy used to attack cities and infrastructure.
Aviation personnel are implementing their own innovative approaches to conducting air and air-defense combat.
In October, the United States stated that the F-16 fighter jets provided to Ukraine as part of military aid account for about 80% of all combat sorties conducted by Ukrainian aviation.
The Ukrainian Air Force called the acquisition of F-16 fighter jets a historic moment for the country and a significant breakthrough in strengthening its aviation capabilities.
Militarnyi
Posted on 11/20/25 at 1:48 pm to VolSquatch
quote:
here have been multiple months long stretches of time where the lines were pretty much completely stagnant with neither side was really even trying anything significant.
I don’t know that to be the case,
For instance the battle for Bakmuth lasted from July of 22 to May of 23. The battle for Pokrovsk started in July of 24 and is still underway.
Russia had been on the offensive in the South along the Dnieper, the East in Luhansk, and in the North in Kharkiv for 1, 2, or 3 years depending on the location.
Maybe they were stymied, but they never quit trying to advance somewhere.
Posted on 11/20/25 at 1:49 pm to CitizenK
Buckle up buttercups, NATO member Poland has confirmed the GRU or Russian intelligence, (you know the mfers that sign a bunch of your paychecks), was responsible for the attack and sabotage of a vital railway. They are closing all remaining Russian consultants offices, more NATO countries likely to follow suit, they are deploying 10,000 troops to kill Russian agents in the country and protect vital infrastructure and sending an additional 100 million of additional US weapons to Ukraine (classified what they are but almost certainly long range weapons) and other actions that are classified. B-52s were launched recently in response and Flying as we speak along Russia and Belarus borders. I don’t know if they are carrying nukes but assume at least tactical nukes. NATO is obviously discussing the responses and is free to do whatever the frick it wants. I would suggest a blockage of the ghost fleet and start sinking the empty ones. Of I am sorry they all had mechanical failures, hit icebergs etc. Trump is fed up with Putin and onboard btw.
Technically this is an act of war against NATO and the USA and we are now free to completely destroy Russia with any means possible at will, at any time after the declaration. We should take out Putin’s bridge to Ukraine. All you Russian mfers can be declared traitors after said declaration and picked up and interrogated, subject to advanced interrogation, (torture) and executed now with or without the declaration as you are a clear and present threat upon declaration. So you better be getting danger pay bitches, and cash those checks fast your masters just lost another refinery.
Putin must have syphilis or something because he is clearly gone fricking insane. Maybe Poland should just take Belarus, they would overrun it in weeks. But it is a shithole.
LINK
Technically this is an act of war against NATO and the USA and we are now free to completely destroy Russia with any means possible at will, at any time after the declaration. We should take out Putin’s bridge to Ukraine. All you Russian mfers can be declared traitors after said declaration and picked up and interrogated, subject to advanced interrogation, (torture) and executed now with or without the declaration as you are a clear and present threat upon declaration. So you better be getting danger pay bitches, and cash those checks fast your masters just lost another refinery.
Putin must have syphilis or something because he is clearly gone fricking insane. Maybe Poland should just take Belarus, they would overrun it in weeks. But it is a shithole.
LINK
Posted on 11/20/25 at 2:12 pm to TutHillTiger
quote:
Technically this is an act of war...
I agree with this.. however I would want to see solid evidence of what happened and who is responsible......
having said that, whatever "sabotage" happened, it doesn't take a big brain to realize it was either a Russian Job/Agent or someone sympathetic to the Russians...
Even with irrefutable evidence I am not advocating for any NATO direct action as a response... I am sure there are other options available ... Such as using this proof against Putin to at least attempt to alienate China from Putin... Or even putting pressure on China to put screws on Putin to stop this insanity...
Posted on 11/20/25 at 2:39 pm to LARancher1991
quote:
Trading land for time is an old tactic. But its a tactic that is only successful when you can field comparable numbers as your enemy and when you enemy has some caring about losses. Also it's a tactic that is used when at some point you can retake what was lost. That's not what is happening here and if it is then it's a terrible strategy that is doomed to fail.
Not when the pace you are taking land at means that the invading force will take over two and half centuries to complete it's conquest, and that's exactly what Russia is trying to do.
Also, since it cost roughly 4-6/1 in terms of casualties, the Ukraine doesn't have to field the same numbers as the Russians. The Ukrainians have openly given up on retaking and at any major rate, they are just trying to hang on to survive. That's their plan, and it's going to be a successful one.
Posted on 11/20/25 at 4:01 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:
Can I split the difference between y'all? On the one hand, there's no way that Ukraine is going to purchase 100 Rafale jets and also 100 Gripens in the next 5 to 10 years. Even if using the frozen Russian assets, and even with some huge discounts given by Dassault and Saab, it's simply far too much money.
Not from what I can tell. The yearly interest on the frozen Russian assets being held by the Europeans alone is going to be from $6-8B/year. If the high end of both the French and Swedish deals come to be that's going to be about $40B spread out over 10 years. There's room to spare, so I expect more European countries to announce deals so they can stick their own hands in this ginormous honey pot.
That, about this whole 'propaganda' thing - were not talking about China and Russia here. Sweden and France are very different. They are going to have taxpayers and stockholders to answer to, so if they sign a contract for $20B and it doesn't get delivered you can expect hell to pay. That, and I assure you Ukraine is going to be dead-set on getting those fighters - they don't want 'propaganda,' they want the actual fighters to protect themselves.
Looking this over, I suspect that this is how they plan to keep Russia from rebuilding over the next 3-5 years. It's going to be awfully difficult for Russia to rebuild their own military if they are paying for the Ukrainians fighter jets so that the Ukrainians act as the buffer to Russian aggression.
Look, geopolitics are complex and so I admit something could happen over the next decade that interrupts delivery of these jets, but I'd be more than willing to place a bet that at least 90% of these jets show up if for no other reason that to keep the Russians broke for the next decade or so.
Posted on 11/20/25 at 6:03 pm to cypher
Posted on 11/20/25 at 7:09 pm to cypher
Read in full: Trump and Putin’s 28-point peace plan for Ukraine
In return for end to conflict, Russia will be given entire Donbas region and Crimea
The deal in full
1. Ukraine's sovereignty will be confirmed.
2. A comprehensive [sic] and comprehensive non-aggression agreement will be concluded between Russia, Ukraine and Europe. All ambiguities of the last 30 years will be considered settled.
3. It is expected that Russia will not invade neighbouring countries and NATO will not expand further.
4. A dialogue will be held between Russia and NATO, mediated by the United States, to resolve all security issues and create conditions for de-escalation in order to ensure global security and increase opportunities for cooperation and future economic development.
5. Ukraine will receive reliable security guarantees.
6. The size of the Ukrainian Armed Forces will be limited to 600,000 personnel.
7. Ukraine agrees to enshrine in its constitution that it will not join NATO, and NATO agrees to include in its statutes a provision that Ukraine will not be admitted in the future.
8. NATO agrees not to station troops in Ukraine.
9. European fighter jets will be stationed in Poland.
10. US guarantee:
?? The US will receive compensation for the guarantee.
?? If Ukraine invades Russia, it will lose the guarantee.
?? If Russia invades Ukraine, in addition to a decisive coordinated military response, all global sanctions will be reinstated, recognition of the new territory and all other benefits of this deal will be revoked.
?? If Ukraine launches a missile at Moscow or St. Petersburg without cause, the security guarantee will be deemed invalid.
11. Ukraine is eligible for EU membership and will receive short-term preferential access to the European market while this issue is being considered.
12. A powerful global package of measures to rebuild Ukraine, including but not limited to:
a. The creation of a Ukraine Development Fund to invest in fast-growing industries, including technology, data centres, and artificial intelligence.
b. The United States will cooperate with Ukraine to jointly rebuild, develop, modernise, and operate Ukraine's gas infrastructure, including pipelines and storage facilities.
c. Joint efforts to rehabilitate war-affected areas for the restoration, reconstruction and modernisation of cities and residential areas.
d. Infrastructure development.
e. Extraction of minerals and natural resources.
f. The World Bank will develop a special financing package to accelerate these efforts.
13. Russia will be reintegrated into the global economy:
a. The lifting of sanctions will be discussed and agreed upon in stages and on a case-by-case basis.
b. The United States will enter into a long-term economic cooperation agreement for mutual development in the areas of energy, natural resources, infrastructure, artificial intelligence, data centres, rare earth metal extraction projects in the Arctic, and other mutually beneficial corporate opportunities.
c. Russia will be invited to rejoin the G8.
14. Frozen funds will be used as follows:
$100 billion in frozen Russian assets will be invested in US-led efforts to rebuild and invest in Ukraine. The US will receive 50% of the profits from this venture. Europe will add $100 billion to increase the amount of investment available for Ukraine's reconstruction. Frozen European funds will be unfrozen. The remainder of the frozen Russian funds will be invested in a separate US-Russian investment vehicle that will implement joint projects in specific areas. This fund will be aimed at strengthening relations and increasing common interests to create a strong incentive not to return to conflict.
15. A joint American-Russian working group on security issues will be established to promote and ensure compliance with all provisions of this agreement.
16. Russia will enshrine in law its policy of non-aggression towards Europe and Ukraine.
17. The United States and Russia will agree to extend the validity of treaties on the non-proliferation and control of nuclear weapons, including the START I Treaty.
18. Ukraine agrees to be a non-nuclear state in accordance with the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons.
19. The Zaporizhzhya Nuclear Power Plant will be launched under the supervision of the IAEA, and the electricity produced will be distributed equally between Russia and Ukraine — 50:50.
20. Both countries undertake to implement educational programmes in schools and society aimed at promoting understanding and tolerance of different cultures and eliminating racism and prejudice:
a. Ukraine will adopt EU rules on religious tolerance and the protection of linguistic minorities.
b. Both countries will agree to abolish all discriminatory measures and guarantee the rights of Ukrainian and Russian media and education.
c. All Nazi ideology and activities must be rejected and prohibited.
21. Territories:
a. Crimea, Luhansk and Donetsk will be recognised as de facto Russian, including by the United States.
b. Kherson and Zaporizhzhia will be frozen along the line of contact, which will mean de facto recognition along the line of contact.
c. Russia will relinquish other agreed territories it controls outside the five regions.
d. Ukrainian forces will withdraw from the part of Donetsk Oblast that they currently control, and this withdrawal zone will be considered a neutral demilitarised buffer zone, internationally recognised as territory belonging to the Russian Federation. Russian forces will not enter this demilitarised zone.
22. After agreeing on future territorial arrangements, both the Russian Federation and Ukraine undertake not to change these arrangements by force. Any security guarantees will not apply in the event of a breach of this commitment.
23. Russia will not prevent Ukraine from using the Dnieper River for commercial activities, and agreements will be reached on the free transport of grain across the Black Sea.
24. A humanitarian committee will be established to resolve outstanding issues:
a. All remaining prisoners and bodies will be exchanged on an ‘all for all’ basis.
b. All civilian detainees and hostages will be returned, including children.
c. A family reunification programme will be implemented.
d. Measures will be taken to alleviate the suffering of the victims of the conflict.
25. Ukraine will hold elections in 100 days.
26. All parties involved in this conflict will receive full amnesty for their actions during the war and agree not to make any claims or consider any complaints in the future.
27. This agreement will be legally binding. Its implementation will be monitored and guaranteed by the Peace Council, headed by President Donald J. Trump. Sanctions will be imposed for violations.
28. Once all parties agree to this memorandum, the ceasefire will take effect immediately after both sides retreat to agreed points to begin implementation of the agreement.
The Telegraph
In return for end to conflict, Russia will be given entire Donbas region and Crimea
The deal in full
1. Ukraine's sovereignty will be confirmed.
2. A comprehensive [sic] and comprehensive non-aggression agreement will be concluded between Russia, Ukraine and Europe. All ambiguities of the last 30 years will be considered settled.
3. It is expected that Russia will not invade neighbouring countries and NATO will not expand further.
4. A dialogue will be held between Russia and NATO, mediated by the United States, to resolve all security issues and create conditions for de-escalation in order to ensure global security and increase opportunities for cooperation and future economic development.
5. Ukraine will receive reliable security guarantees.
6. The size of the Ukrainian Armed Forces will be limited to 600,000 personnel.
7. Ukraine agrees to enshrine in its constitution that it will not join NATO, and NATO agrees to include in its statutes a provision that Ukraine will not be admitted in the future.
8. NATO agrees not to station troops in Ukraine.
9. European fighter jets will be stationed in Poland.
10. US guarantee:
?? The US will receive compensation for the guarantee.
?? If Ukraine invades Russia, it will lose the guarantee.
?? If Russia invades Ukraine, in addition to a decisive coordinated military response, all global sanctions will be reinstated, recognition of the new territory and all other benefits of this deal will be revoked.
?? If Ukraine launches a missile at Moscow or St. Petersburg without cause, the security guarantee will be deemed invalid.
11. Ukraine is eligible for EU membership and will receive short-term preferential access to the European market while this issue is being considered.
12. A powerful global package of measures to rebuild Ukraine, including but not limited to:
a. The creation of a Ukraine Development Fund to invest in fast-growing industries, including technology, data centres, and artificial intelligence.
b. The United States will cooperate with Ukraine to jointly rebuild, develop, modernise, and operate Ukraine's gas infrastructure, including pipelines and storage facilities.
c. Joint efforts to rehabilitate war-affected areas for the restoration, reconstruction and modernisation of cities and residential areas.
d. Infrastructure development.
e. Extraction of minerals and natural resources.
f. The World Bank will develop a special financing package to accelerate these efforts.
13. Russia will be reintegrated into the global economy:
a. The lifting of sanctions will be discussed and agreed upon in stages and on a case-by-case basis.
b. The United States will enter into a long-term economic cooperation agreement for mutual development in the areas of energy, natural resources, infrastructure, artificial intelligence, data centres, rare earth metal extraction projects in the Arctic, and other mutually beneficial corporate opportunities.
c. Russia will be invited to rejoin the G8.
14. Frozen funds will be used as follows:
$100 billion in frozen Russian assets will be invested in US-led efforts to rebuild and invest in Ukraine. The US will receive 50% of the profits from this venture. Europe will add $100 billion to increase the amount of investment available for Ukraine's reconstruction. Frozen European funds will be unfrozen. The remainder of the frozen Russian funds will be invested in a separate US-Russian investment vehicle that will implement joint projects in specific areas. This fund will be aimed at strengthening relations and increasing common interests to create a strong incentive not to return to conflict.
15. A joint American-Russian working group on security issues will be established to promote and ensure compliance with all provisions of this agreement.
16. Russia will enshrine in law its policy of non-aggression towards Europe and Ukraine.
17. The United States and Russia will agree to extend the validity of treaties on the non-proliferation and control of nuclear weapons, including the START I Treaty.
18. Ukraine agrees to be a non-nuclear state in accordance with the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons.
19. The Zaporizhzhya Nuclear Power Plant will be launched under the supervision of the IAEA, and the electricity produced will be distributed equally between Russia and Ukraine — 50:50.
20. Both countries undertake to implement educational programmes in schools and society aimed at promoting understanding and tolerance of different cultures and eliminating racism and prejudice:
a. Ukraine will adopt EU rules on religious tolerance and the protection of linguistic minorities.
b. Both countries will agree to abolish all discriminatory measures and guarantee the rights of Ukrainian and Russian media and education.
c. All Nazi ideology and activities must be rejected and prohibited.
21. Territories:
a. Crimea, Luhansk and Donetsk will be recognised as de facto Russian, including by the United States.
b. Kherson and Zaporizhzhia will be frozen along the line of contact, which will mean de facto recognition along the line of contact.
c. Russia will relinquish other agreed territories it controls outside the five regions.
d. Ukrainian forces will withdraw from the part of Donetsk Oblast that they currently control, and this withdrawal zone will be considered a neutral demilitarised buffer zone, internationally recognised as territory belonging to the Russian Federation. Russian forces will not enter this demilitarised zone.
22. After agreeing on future territorial arrangements, both the Russian Federation and Ukraine undertake not to change these arrangements by force. Any security guarantees will not apply in the event of a breach of this commitment.
23. Russia will not prevent Ukraine from using the Dnieper River for commercial activities, and agreements will be reached on the free transport of grain across the Black Sea.
24. A humanitarian committee will be established to resolve outstanding issues:
a. All remaining prisoners and bodies will be exchanged on an ‘all for all’ basis.
b. All civilian detainees and hostages will be returned, including children.
c. A family reunification programme will be implemented.
d. Measures will be taken to alleviate the suffering of the victims of the conflict.
25. Ukraine will hold elections in 100 days.
26. All parties involved in this conflict will receive full amnesty for their actions during the war and agree not to make any claims or consider any complaints in the future.
27. This agreement will be legally binding. Its implementation will be monitored and guaranteed by the Peace Council, headed by President Donald J. Trump. Sanctions will be imposed for violations.
28. Once all parties agree to this memorandum, the ceasefire will take effect immediately after both sides retreat to agreed points to begin implementation of the agreement.
The Telegraph
Posted on 11/20/25 at 7:20 pm to VolSquatch
quote:
The point was that they aren't stopping despite things like being in "big trouble" economically and suffering insane casualty numbers, not simply that "they are still fighting".
Same goes for Ukraine!!!
Posted on 11/20/25 at 7:38 pm to cypher
Now. Let's all read the fine print, shall we?
LOL
But we're not going to say what.
Uh huh. The size of Ukraine's military needs to be monitored, but not the size of Russia's
Because the country that has a Russian Jew for a leader that was invaded by a country with a military group named after Hitler's favorite composer needs to be 'educated' about Nazi's.....
So now we, the US, are shaking down the Ukrainians. Jesus Age Christ...
Here come the bots! Congrats JB!
Cause it sure worked last time! Right? Right?
Again, with the goddamn Nazi BS.....
The only actual part of the treaty that I agree with. Proving that even a blind squirrel can find a nut.
Hey, if they can't take all of Luhansk and Donetsk, let's just give it to the Russians! That'll end well!!
Translation in Ukraine: Help treat the wounded and find them jobs.
Translation in Russia: Shoot the wounded and refuse to hand benefits over to the families.
Cause nothing says democracy like forcing the Ukranians to hold elections that they're not interested in to challenge a leader even their opposition party says is legit.
I'm sorry - have the Ukrainians been accused of mass, large scale war crimes or is that just the Russians.....?
This is the most one-sided, biased document in my middle-aged lifetime.
Fuk you, Witkoff, you goddamn national sellout.
Now. Europe. Go use every last nickel of those frozen assets to fund the Ukranians military, and there will be peace for a generation.
quote:
It is expected that Russia will not invade neighboring countries
LOL
quote:
Ukraine will receive reliable security guarantees.
But we're not going to say what.
quote:
6. The size of the Ukrainian Armed Forces will be limited to 600,000 personnel.
Uh huh. The size of Ukraine's military needs to be monitored, but not the size of Russia's
quote:
20. Both countries undertake to implement educational programmes in schools and society aimed at promoting understanding and tolerance of different cultures and eliminating racism and prejudice:
a. Ukraine will adopt EU rules on religious tolerance and the protection of linguistic minorities.
b. Both countries will agree to abolish all discriminatory measures and guarantee the rights of Ukrainian and Russian media and education.
c. All Nazi ideology and activities must be rejected and prohibited.
Because the country that has a Russian Jew for a leader that was invaded by a country with a military group named after Hitler's favorite composer needs to be 'educated' about Nazi's.....
quote:
$100 billion in frozen Russian assets will be invested in US-led efforts to rebuild and invest in Ukraine. The US will receive 50% of the profits from this venture.
So now we, the US, are shaking down the Ukrainians. Jesus Age Christ...
quote:
b. Both countries will agree to abolish all discriminatory measures and guarantee the rights of Ukrainian and Russian media and education
Here come the bots! Congrats JB!
quote:
16. Russia will enshrine in law its policy of non-aggression towards Europe and Ukraine.
Cause it sure worked last time! Right? Right?
quote:
c. All Nazi ideology and activities must be rejected and prohibited.
Again, with the goddamn Nazi BS.....
quote:
18. Ukraine agrees to be a non-nuclear state in accordance with the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons.
The only actual part of the treaty that I agree with. Proving that even a blind squirrel can find a nut.
quote:
Crimea, Luhansk and Donetsk will be recognised as de facto Russian, including by the United States.
Hey, if they can't take all of Luhansk and Donetsk, let's just give it to the Russians! That'll end well!!
quote:
Measures will be taken to alleviate the suffering of the victims of the conflict.
Translation in Ukraine: Help treat the wounded and find them jobs.
Translation in Russia: Shoot the wounded and refuse to hand benefits over to the families.
quote:
25. Ukraine will hold elections in 100 days
Cause nothing says democracy like forcing the Ukranians to hold elections that they're not interested in to challenge a leader even their opposition party says is legit.
quote:
26. All parties involved in this conflict will receive full amnesty for their actions during the war and agree not to make any claims or consider any complaints in the future
I'm sorry - have the Ukrainians been accused of mass, large scale war crimes or is that just the Russians.....?
This is the most one-sided, biased document in my middle-aged lifetime.
Fuk you, Witkoff, you goddamn national sellout.
Now. Europe. Go use every last nickel of those frozen assets to fund the Ukranians military, and there will be peace for a generation.
Posted on 11/20/25 at 8:06 pm to LARancher1991
quote:
Maybe instead of bombing refineries which have no immediate effect on the situation at the front they should focus on hitting actual front line units.
I LOVE this logic... "instead of destroying things worth millions of dollars that can't be easily replaced or repaired, Ukraine should focus on killing Russian troops, whose lives are worth absolutely NOTHING to Putin and he has millions more he'd gladly send to their deaths just to get rid of them. That's the way to wear down Russia!!!" Especially since Ukraine is hitting those front-line units. Should they be using more expensive weapons to do it? Is that the complaint? Russia is sending small groups of troops on foot. Does that make it easier to hit them all with a big long-range missile or something?
Posted on 11/20/25 at 8:08 pm to VolSquatch
quote:
As the advancing army Russia is able to get more accurate counts on their dead for themselves than Ukraine is able to. They are well aware of how many people it takes, and yet they are still advancing.
the wonders of shooting your own troops if they don't advance!
Posted on 11/20/25 at 8:41 pm to Leopold
quote:
18. Ukraine agrees to be a non-nuclear state in accordance with the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons.
Didn’t Ukraine already give up their nukes in exchange for the recognition of their sovereignty?
Posted on 11/20/25 at 8:44 pm to LARancher1991
quote:
That's all great but at some point the trading land for time has to stop. They don't have much more land to trade in the Donetsk region. It's not a winning tactic unless you have the ability to counter attack and retake what was lost which Ukraine does not. Yes, they can take land back here and there but they do not have the ability to trade land for time indefinitely. Especially now that there are reports that Putin and Trump are working on another peace deal. As far as the Kursk thing yea it made a good headline but strategically was about the dumbest thing they could've done.
Ukraine is not trying to take back its land by force. They are trying to cause Russia to collapse.
It is what the CIA using the Saudi Mujahedin they trained and sent into Afghanistan to fight the Communist Afghan Government did to the Soviet Union... that was revenge for Vietnam, which the Russians thought would cause America to collapse, based on their own revolution over WWI. The difference is that Americans elect our leaders... if we get angry about being pulled into a War, we vote out our leaders, we don't overthrow the government.
Russia is a patchwork of regions and 190 different ethnic groups. If Moscow weakens... it will be a 190-front Civil War they have to deal with...
This has become a game of chicken... but Ukraine cannot swerve.
This post was edited on 11/20/25 at 8:53 pm
Posted on 11/20/25 at 8:45 pm to Leopold
quote:
Europe. Go use every last nickel of those frozen assets to fund the Ukranians military, and there will be peace for a generation.
That's actually my take on this. Trump knows that it's a non-starter. He knows that Witkoff is an idiot. But this proposal is designed to put pressure on Europe. People are acting as though it puts pressure on Zelensky, and it really doesn't.
Europe refuses to get serious about Russian oil. They refuse to use the frozen assets. Trump wants them to put up or shut up.
Posted on 11/20/25 at 8:46 pm to Leopold
quote:
This is the most one-sided, biased document in my middle-aged lifetime. Fuk you, Witkoff, you goddamn national sellout. Now. Europe. Go use every last nickel of those frozen assets to fund the Ukranians military, and there will be peace for a generation.
Nice melt comrade
Posted on 11/20/25 at 8:50 pm to Leopold
quote:
quote:
$100 billion in frozen Russian assets will be invested in US-led efforts to rebuild and invest in Ukraine. The US will receive 50% of the profits from this venture.
So now we, the US, are shaking down the Ukrainians. Jesus Age Christ...
I'm sure this is all Trump needed to hear to get on board with this proposal!!!
Posted on 11/20/25 at 9:05 pm to cypher
Thanks for relaying the info... I just can't give that nonsense an upvote
This post was edited on 11/20/25 at 9:06 pm
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