re: JD Vance On Ukraine: “We’re Done.”

In the early 90's, the new independent Ukraine had a bunch of nuclear weapons. I know some of you young pups were too young to see what was happening then, but I was well aware. It was a big deal with lots of concern that some of those nukes could end up being sold to terrorists regimes or organizations.

America, UK, the West and Russia made a solemn guarantee to Ukraine's sovereignty if they gave up those nukes. They gave up the nukes.

Now America's promise is again in question. America should not go back on its word if our word is to mean anything at all.

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The only way to do that is to beat them in Ukraine

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That a solid a solid plan, no one disagrees.

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with minimal cost

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Now we have a problem- we have sent 175 Billion, what is your definition of minimal? I believe this is where the VP is aggravated, he see this as an American- lets stop this stupid shite- we could use this money elsewhere

Oh Jesus this is not that complicated.

We let Ulraine in as a "Full Associated Member". A new class of membership. (We make the same offer to Moldova at the same time).

Article Five is given to Ukraine just like it applies to the "real" NATO countries, so if Russia attacks again, bad news for Russia.

But to calm them down, the associate member status means that NATO troops (apart from Ukranian troops of course) cannot be stationed there, so no threat to Russia, NATO troops can engage in brief exchange missions and training and day to day things they do worldwide (US Marines guarding the US Embassy for example),

So Ukraine gets its security, Russia gets "no threat".

Russia keeps Crimea which was a wild arse gift frojmj Khruschev anyway, so eff it, keep it. But they cannot keep what they attacked and took over now because some shite they took over, mineral mines and all that and a nuke station, that stuff has a lot of value. Sorry Russia, give it back.

War over.

That's not reality nor would it make sense to suddenly just bring Ukraine into NATO

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But they cannot keep what they attacked and took over now

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You know Russia will never agree willingly to that. It's a non-starter.

The only way Ukraine is getting that territory back is if it's paid for with American blood spilt on that soil forcing Russia back.

Russia is not so strong as you think, I believe they could negotiate that away.

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The only way Ukraine is getting that territory back is if it's paid for with American blood spilt on that soil forcing Russia back.

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And if that happens the nukes will fly! Russia isn't waiting around for the west to destroy them without a fight. Warmonger leaders have led to this situation.

Then NATO should take it back. Russia should not be allowed to invade and take territory,

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Then NATO should take it back. Russia should not be allowed to invade and take territory,

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So since this clearly isn't an article 5 situation, you are advocating for the continuance of Team America: World Police?

Morally I don't disagree with your stance, but I have grown weary of American men and women dieing all over the world. You said yourself that Russia is weak. They aren't a threat we need to spill red, white, and blue blood over.

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America, UK, the West and Russia made a solemn guarantee to Ukraine's sovereignty if they gave up those nukes. They gave up the nukes.

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They were Russian nukes parked in Ukraine. They didnt have codes and could not have moved them without the world knowing it.

I do agree we went back on our word and created a coup and overthrew the govt of a sovereign country to start a war with Russia. The answer is not to continue the coup, and stop funding our cia proxy to wage war with Russia.