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re: Is this the trade off for gun rights?
Posted on 8/6/19 at 1:54 pm to SammyTiger
Posted on 8/6/19 at 1:54 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
willing to topple society over a right o own a gun
It's quite more than that, you ignoramus. It's the right to defend yourself and your loved ones. It's the right to defend your property, and your livelihood. In truth, it is the defense of all other rights. Without it, you are a subject, not a citizen.
quote:
When the last time the first amendment was defended by a citizen with an AR?
I am sure there are many others, but the government didn't just roll over the Bundys out west before they had their say, did they?
0
Posted on 8/6/19 at 1:56 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:The government functions solely on its ability to borrow money at his point. Who’s going buying treasuries with a insurgency going on?
The insurgency doesn’t have to win anything. The US economy and by extension the world economy would be destroyed in a matter of weeks or even days. People would be starving. Money would be worthless.
Posted on 8/6/19 at 2:03 pm to Taxing Authority
Who’s gonna support an insurgency that tanks the economy and destroys the infrastructure
Posted on 8/6/19 at 2:05 pm to Vecchio Cane
quote:we are discussing a hypothetical situation. In this hypothetical, the second amendment was repealed. That is not an opinion poll, and its result is not subject to debate. 75% of the population (more or less) would have voted in support of that action.quote:aha, we found your disconnect.
an amendment that 75% approved off?
You gotta stay away from those polls, bro. They'll lie right to your face
This is where the discussion gets interesting. Which do you love more? The Constitution and its underlying processes, or your guns?
Because (in this scenario) going all Wolverines! would indicate that you care less about our Constitution (Including its inherent provisions for amendment) than about your right to shoot things.
Again, I continue to believe that peaceful secession should be an option at this point in the process.
This post was edited on 8/6/19 at 2:06 pm
Posted on 8/6/19 at 2:07 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
The main different here is
Posted on 8/6/19 at 2:14 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
we are discussing a hypothetical situation. In this hypothetical, the second amendment was repealed. That is not an opinion poll, and its result is not subject to debate. 75% of the population (more or less) would have voted in support of that action. This is where the discussion gets interesting. Which do you love more? The Constitution and its underlying processes, or your guns?
I'd have to give up my guns at that point. "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's."
This post was edited on 8/6/19 at 2:15 pm
Posted on 8/6/19 at 2:17 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
75% of the population (more or less) would have voted in support of that action.
Tyranny of a majority is still tyranny.
Posted on 8/6/19 at 2:19 pm to Vecchio Cane
quote:and when the rubber hits the road, I think that 99% of gun owners would agree with you.quote:I'd have to give up my guns at that point. "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's."
we are discussing a hypothetical situation. In this hypothetical, the second amendment was repealed. That is not an opinion poll, and its result is not subject to debate. 75% of the population (more or less) would have voted in support of that action. This is where the discussion gets interesting. Which do you love more? The Constitution and its underlying processes, or your guns?
Of course, all of this completely ignores the real world effect of a repeal of the Second Amendment. It would not necessarily mean nationwide gun confiscation. To the contrary, I think that the legislative horse trading involved in drafting a “repeal” amendment would provide for the matter to revert to the states.
Does anyone really believe that Texas or Mississippi would not continue to allow gun ownership or that many more-liberal states would not allow gun ownership for hunting purposes, etc.
This post was edited on 8/6/19 at 2:27 pm
Posted on 8/6/19 at 2:21 pm to Clames
quote:so, we have our first entry in the column for “no respect for constitutional processes.“quote:Tyranny of a majority is still tyranny.
75% of the population (more or less) would have voted in support of that action.
Posted on 8/6/19 at 2:25 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
so, we have our first entry in the column for “no respect for constitutional processes.“
No, just another poster who understands the phrase inalienable rights. The percentage doesn't matter. Neither the government, nor the people bestow any rights. They can only violate them.
Posted on 8/6/19 at 2:32 pm to AggieHank86
Says the “libertarian”. You’re dense or trolling.
Posted on 8/6/19 at 2:32 pm to troyt37
quote:oddly enough, neither this phrase nor even the general concept appears anywhere in the Constitution.
just another poster who understands the phrase inalienable rights
The Declaration of Independence was about soaring political rhetoric. The Constitution was about the nuts and bolts of governing.
It would have been easy to incorporate “inalienable rights” into the Constitution. It would have been easy to provide that certain articles or sections would not be subject to repeal or amendment.
The Founders did none of that. Because they felt that the super majority should have the right to make the rules of a society.
This post was edited on 8/6/19 at 2:35 pm
Posted on 8/6/19 at 2:37 pm to Flats
quote:You really are not very bright, are you?
Says the “libertarian”. You’re dense or trolling.
There’s a significant difference between how one thinks a society should be ordered (libertarian, in my case) and believing that one should abide by the rules established for the society in which one resides (Constitutionalism).
Posted on 8/6/19 at 2:39 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
The Declaration of Independence was about soaring political rhetoric.
Bullbutter. It was about telling a tyrannical government that human beings have certain rights that must be respected, whether the king deems it so, or the government tells itself that it must.
Posted on 8/6/19 at 2:45 pm to troyt37
Life is the first inalienable right isn’t it?
Posted on 8/6/19 at 2:48 pm to AggieHank86
Bright enough to recognize false dichotomies and appeals to ridicule.
Posted on 8/6/19 at 2:50 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
Life is the first inalienable right isn’t it?
It is. And therefore defense of life as well. Don't forget Liberty. It plays a large part too. Might want to look that one up, if you don't understand.
Posted on 8/6/19 at 2:50 pm to SammyTiger
'Bare arms'?
Try harder.
Try harder.
Posted on 8/6/19 at 2:52 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
so, we have our first entry in the column for “no respect for constitutional processes.“
Wrong, your dishonesty aside, I happen to believe that the Bill of Rights is somewhat above the rest. Any population, regardless of legal procedure, that would vote to suspend a basic civil right isn't something to respect. Freedom of expression and assembly also up for repeal if enough people should agree?
Posted on 8/6/19 at 2:54 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
You’re AR isn’t going shite vs a drone.
The military has 10 million hellfires? Cause a very low estimate of those who would not stand for the repeal of the 2nd is more than that.
Dumbasses that say things like I quoted dont look at the problems the US military endured from Vietnam to Afghanistan. Some uneducated backwards arse guys with an AK gave them all the problems they wanted. And that was us fighting a bunch of foreigners. Not your neighbors.
I am not saying that civilians would win but it certainly wont be a cakewalk for the government either.
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