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Is there a single instance where sanctions worked?
Posted on 11/25/23 at 6:53 am
Posted on 11/25/23 at 6:53 am
Remembering all the sanctions put on Russia when they invaded Ukraine. Seems like they didn’t even make a dent.
Plus I imagine when a country is about to pull some shite they take into account the possible sanctions from whoever and figure out whether they will seriously hurt or not.
I’m trying to remember if sanctions ever caused a country to cave in.
Plus I imagine when a country is about to pull some shite they take into account the possible sanctions from whoever and figure out whether they will seriously hurt or not.
I’m trying to remember if sanctions ever caused a country to cave in.
Posted on 11/25/23 at 7:02 am to Geekboy
quote:
Remembering all the sanctions put on Russia when they invaded Ukraine. Seems like they didn’t even make a dent.
I’m sure they put the squeeze on them in certain ways temporarily until they found a workaround. Trading in other currencies, changing banks for credit etc.
But it probably enriched some folks as well. If you look at the all the seized yachts etc for example, those were ultimately sold to private parties. Also anonymously from what I’ve read. Bank accounts were tapped as sanctioned although I’m unsure what they did with those monies.
Posted on 11/25/23 at 7:03 am to Geekboy
It’s just cover so governments can claim they tried. Gives them the illusion of influence & power where they have none.
It’s to dupe the public, mostly.
It’s to dupe the public, mostly.
This post was edited on 11/25/23 at 7:15 am
Posted on 11/25/23 at 7:34 am to BamaCoaster
This is a position I’ve come to over time as well. Sanctions long term never achieve a positive objective other than as a talking point to a politician. I guess in that sense, they work.
Posted on 11/25/23 at 7:51 am to Geekboy
quote:
Plus I imagine when a country is about to pull some shite they take into account the possible sanctions from whoever and figure out whether they will seriously hurt or not.
/\ THIS /\ is where I thing the Biden money laundering scheme got it's only salable product. Biden was in position to leak the current thinking of the State Dept and readiness levels in the Defense Dept to help the foreign governments better plan their strategy - and to warn foreign oligarchs of unsafe 'investments.'
there was much of never anything a VP could actually DO, otherwise he could have been a billionaire by now
This post was edited on 11/25/23 at 7:53 am
Posted on 11/25/23 at 7:51 am to Geekboy
Countries that are typically sanctioned don’t care about it. They care about power. We would much better off to carpet bomb their military installations. They only respect power. Sanctions are only effective on westernized countries who, of course, never get sanctioned.
Posted on 11/25/23 at 7:59 am to Demonbengal
Another example of sanctions not working, and probably doing just the opposite of what they were intended to do. Before WW2 Japan was trying to become a world power, by building up their military and influence in the world. Their small island needed more resources ( oil,coal, etc). US put strong sanctions on them. Thus Pearl Harbor, WW2.
Posted on 11/25/23 at 8:48 am to BamaCoaster
quote:
Yes.
Cuba.
/end thread
So Castro got over thrown because of the backlash of the sanctioned citizens of Cuba? That was the goal of sanctions in Cuba. Castro won.
Re-Open thread.
Posted on 11/25/23 at 8:49 am to Geekboy
Sanctions just hurt the populace
Posted on 11/25/23 at 10:21 am to Geekboy
I’d prefer to keep them on Iran so they have less money for terrorism. So in that way they work. Not as effective as a blockade but better than Potatus giving them funding.
Posted on 11/25/23 at 10:25 am to Geekboy
Oh...they worked.
Drove Russia and China together.
Drove Russia and China together.
Posted on 11/25/23 at 10:42 am to Geekboy
They may not motivate the target nation to change policy. But they can make life shitty for them.
Posted on 11/25/23 at 10:44 am to Geekboy
It’s forced the Russians to develop and produce domestic alternatives to western goods and equipment.
Your ability to make things is a basic measure of wealth and strength.
We’ve ultimately done them a favor.
Your ability to make things is a basic measure of wealth and strength.
We’ve ultimately done them a favor.
Posted on 11/25/23 at 11:01 am to kjntgr
The lesson from Japan is, if you sanction a country and back them into a corner you best be ready for a violent response.
Posted on 11/25/23 at 11:26 am to BamaCoaster
quote:
Yes.
Cuba.
/end thread
Fidel outlasted a dozen presidents and died with 400million US....while his people suffered for generations thanks to our embargo.
Chavez has a daughter working for the UN now and worth 2 billion, while the people of Venezuela suffer miserably.
Have a friend in the shipping business, heck I can swim from Trinidad to Venezuela, he said we are transhipping Dom, the french wines and cheeses, same as always over there.
Posted on 11/25/23 at 11:34 am to mauser
A few months back the UN etc got tired of the warlord leadership in some african shathole, stealing the free grain and then charging the starving populace for it. So they said we will stop shipping and the warlords said okey dokey let em starve.
A week later they said they will resume shipments....but only to women and children. Well if you couldnt control it in the first place how are you now going to target market it....oh nevermind.
I remember its the same strategy of giving iran the money we were holding as long as its used for humanitarian aid and will will use Qatar to monitor it....but isnt that the country that is wining and dining hamas...oh nevermind.
But we are doing the sensible thing and using Russia to negotiate the nuke deal between us and Iran.......seriously we were using Russia as a mediator.
A week later they said they will resume shipments....but only to women and children. Well if you couldnt control it in the first place how are you now going to target market it....oh nevermind.
I remember its the same strategy of giving iran the money we were holding as long as its used for humanitarian aid and will will use Qatar to monitor it....but isnt that the country that is wining and dining hamas...oh nevermind.
But we are doing the sensible thing and using Russia to negotiate the nuke deal between us and Iran.......seriously we were using Russia as a mediator.
Posted on 11/25/23 at 11:59 am to Geekboy
We need to dig to see the effects. If a country isn't a net exporter on something it isnt as effective. I am sure the general populace is paying the price
Posted on 11/25/23 at 9:36 pm to idlewatcher
quote:
But it probably enriched some folks as well. If you look at the all the seized yachts etc for example, those were ultimately sold to private parties. Also anonymously from what I’ve read. Bank accounts were tapped as sanctioned although I’m unsure what they did with those monies.
Accounts with an owner that is a sanctioned party are frozen in an interest bearing account at whatever institution it was held at (when/if the sanctions are lifted the original value plus interest are returned to the owner).
Posted on 11/26/23 at 7:29 am to Geekboy
Hell yes sanctions have worked. The massacre featured in The Last of the Mohicans occurred when Fort Henry capitulated due to sanctions enforced by blockade. It is a tried and true method.
Of course, its effectiveness is proportional to the control the sanctioning forces have. The US and Europe can do some good by sanctioning Russian oil, for example, but they can turn around and sell to China. We forced them to accept a lower price, and to spend more money transporting it, but we don’t have the power to fully blockade them the way the French and Indians did to Fort Henry.
Of course, its effectiveness is proportional to the control the sanctioning forces have. The US and Europe can do some good by sanctioning Russian oil, for example, but they can turn around and sell to China. We forced them to accept a lower price, and to spend more money transporting it, but we don’t have the power to fully blockade them the way the French and Indians did to Fort Henry.
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